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Thread: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

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    The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Somehow I got on their list. Their email had a pointer to this article. It claimed as a way to save money, run the pool system at night.

    I had to respond. It should be at the bottom.

    I looked at his credentials and had to laugh. I didn't realize be on Martha Stewart made him an authority.

    Here's the link. http://www.swimuniversity.com/blog/mone ... mment-4652

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    He replied back.

    Actually, this guy was on TFP for a bit. He hasnt posted in months.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    crookm11's Avatar
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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    PoolGuyNJ,

    Thanks for the link. I just read the blog. I have not owned a pool very long but the information from this site about properly and safely maintaining a pool will always out do any extra electric costs. The safety of my family and friends is much more important than trying to save a buck.
    Mark Crook
    13,500 Gallon 24' x 52" Intex Ultra Frame
    Intex Sand Filter and Pump, Intex SWG (All hard PVC plumbed)
    TFTestKit-100---Pool School---The Pool Calculator
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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Scott,

    While I believe you, I don't follow your logic. You said, "Running the system during the day replenishes lost residual free chlorine that would otherwise be lost by sunlight and activity."

    Unless you have a SWG or in-line chlorine feeder, I don't see how running the system can replenish chlorine. Unless you mean areas of localized chlorine loss, like at the surface, and running the filter will keep everything mixed so there are no small localized areas with no chlorine ???

    I know a lot of people who use liquid chlorine and the only time they have to pour it in is after work, so they run the filter during the evening hours. Is this bad?

    Thanks
    25' x 13' Roman, 12000 gal IGP, Plaster, with 500 gal Spa
    SWG, 1 HP Max Flo Pump, C-900 cartridge filter
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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Yup, I remember him. We were all over him like stink on....well, stinky pool advice.

    I don't think this particular article is necessarily bad advice...running the pump when electricity is cheaper certainly makes sense. Lots of people don't like the idea of water not being circulated during the heat of the day, but lborne is right; without a feeder/SWG it's not going to make any difference, unless your FC was too low already.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    I know its an effect of lighting, but why would he choose to use a picture on his blog that looks like a cloudy, green pool!
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Looking to build a new POOL

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Here we are on a peak/ off peak system when it comes to what we pay for electricity.
    So I would say most everyone runs their systems at night here, even with lots of sun, and heat. I have not seen any appreciable difference or problems.
    Every pool I have ever set up, is set up to run off peak hours.

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    @Melt: Yes it will make a HUGE difference. Chlorination systems are designed to meet normal demands. The loss of all the residual will take time to rebuild., not something chlorinators are designed to do. That will let the bio badies run wild! Then when they system starts back up, it has to take whe it's producing to fight the badies instead of rebuilding the residual.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    I did, btw, respond with additional information that should convince any homeowner that his advice is not on a solid foundation.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Quote Originally Posted by MyBad
    Shock every week......What a dipskit.

    A couple cups of bleach every day has to be cheaper than bags of shock powder.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Thanks for the link, definitely worth a chuckle. So is this one

    http://www.swimuniversity.com/blog/10-b ... -heard-of/
    6. Liquid Solar Blanket (Flexible Solutions)
    What It Does: Keeps the heat from escaping your pool like a normal solar blanket.
    Solar blankets are big and can sometimes be a real pain to take on and off your pool every time you want to use it. Solar covers work by keeping the heat in your pool – not by attracting the sun’s heat towards your pool. Liquid solar blankets do the same thing except you don’t need a giant cover. Simply drop the ball or fish pouch in your pool and a small amount of the liquid coats the top of your pool for an entire month. Don’t worry, you can’t see it, feel it or even taste it. It’s only about 1 molecule thick. My only suggestion when using a liquid solar blanket is to not run your pool’s filter system at night. In the evening you tend to lose the most heat because the nights are cooler. If the water is still, the liquid has a better chance of keeping the heat in your swimming pool overnight.
    Now not only will his readers believe that you should shock the pool every week and run the filter only at night but they'll also use these solar fish!
    19.5k gallons in ground, P4 panel with turbocell SWG, 1hp Hayward superpump II, sand filter, Heater low nox 250k btu heater, solar cover on rocky roller

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    he probably owns stock in solar fish
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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    The main focus of the website appears to be selling products for an on-line vendor.
    The information provided would probably be the same as you would receive from your local pool store.
    The recommendations provided may not be in the best interest of the pool owner, but in the best interest of the website sponsor(s)
    poolschoolgrad

    20x40 free-form IG vinyl, 1hp Hayward superpump, Hayward pro grid DE filter, Raypak heatpump, Goldline Aquarite SWCG, Polaris 280 with booster, and tested using a Taylor K2006.

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    That same thread pitched copper algaecide too. I especially love the way it stains a deck blue or makes green stains on surfaces. Those aren't harmful to people so I chose not to shoot that page full of the bullets as it so deserves.

    The running at night article raises the risks to swimmers health. As a pool professional and CPO, I was obligated to comment there. If any others wish to pile on, I ask that you be non-adversarial, don't mention other sites by name except industry or governmental authoritative sites such as the APSP or EPA, and come across as wanting to help the public on a selfless basis.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    @Melt: Yes it will make a HUGE difference. Chlorination systems are designed to meet normal demands. The loss of all the residual will take time to rebuild., not something chlorinators are designed to do. That will let the bio badies run wild! Then when they system starts back up, it has to take whe it's producing to fight the badies instead of rebuilding the residual.

    Scott
    I agree with Melt, whether you run the system at night or during the day it makes NO difference. The chlorinator produces the exact same amount of chlorine whether it runs during the day or night. Measuring FC level should be done at the low point during the day. In the case of running the chlorinator at night this measurement should be done right before the chlorinator kicks on. That measurement should never be below the minimum FC level for the CYA level you have. Its not like during the day when the chlorinator is not running a bunch of bio badies, as you call them, are going to take over. There is chlorine in the water! That chlorine with kill these bio badies and yes the sun will get rid some also. But at night it builds up again. And if it doesn't you have it set too low. I have been running my chlorinator at night for as long as I can remember and NEVER had a problem. My FC at night is around 3.5 and in the morning 5.5.

    Not defending the author but just don't want misinformation getting out there. I don't know about other articles this guy has put out but this one does not strike me as all that bad.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    It all depends on the chlorine level when the pump shuts off and the loss of chlorine from sunlight and bather load (assuming an SWG is being used, of course). One could certainly have a residential pool where at a higher CYA level there was lower loss from sunlight as well as a higher FC to provide enough buffer to handle a 1.5-2.5 ppm drop during the day without running out of chlorine or getting too low. For example, having 50 ppm CYA and starting with 6 ppm FC when the pump shuts off sometime in the early morning (before rates go up) and then having the FC drop to 4 ppm by the time the pump starts again at night would be fine.

    However, for a commercial/public pool with moderate-to-high bather load, this approach certainly would not work since the chlorine demand is so much higher that chlorine addition during the day is pretty much a requirement. The approach is also not good if the bather load in the residential pool spiked, such as from a pool party, though even daytime running doesn't completely solve that problem since the chlorine demand is simply higher than normal and needs to be supplemented in some way.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    In an unused pool, the loss might be that low but if it's got activity, it's all over.

    The sun, the temps, the activity will drop the FC below the effective level needed for sanitation and oxidation and continue to leave any bio-badies to do their version of the wild thing and the oxidation needs unmet. That added demand needed to counter the unchecked period and the time needed to rebuild the residual is pushing the chlorination system more than needed, if it can meet that at all, and leaving the pool cloudier each day with a significantly increase opportunity for unsightly algae growth or not getting high enough to kill any chlorine resistant (at lower levels) organisms.

    How many people do we see every year that don't pay close enough attention finding their way here? How many mistakenly rely on others that claim to be professionals or experts? How many have been "pool stored"?

    How much money will be saved when they have to keep adding chlorine boosters to clear the cloudiness? Or balancing chems? Or drainings because of the added CYA or CH? Etc.... ad infinitum ad nauseum.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Scott, you turn a nice phrase

    While I've always supported running the pump when folks are using the pool, that advice was only for folks that had a chlorine introduction system that only introduced cl when the pump was running. Even then, I'd suggest a split run time so that fresh cl is introduced when folks are 'normally' using the pool and a night run, so that the freshly introduced cl can both 'burn out' the daytime load and replenish the 'reserve' for tomorrow's sun and bather load

    Commercial/ public pools are different, this is the 'joy' I'll have to deal with this season.

    I hope you're well and that your season is off to a great start
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: The Latest Swim University E-Mail

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    However, for a commercial/public pool with moderate-to-high bather load, this approach certainly would not work since the chlorine demand is so much higher that chlorine addition during the day is pretty much a requirement. The approach is also not good if the bather load in the residential pool spiked, such as from a pool party, though even daytime running doesn't completely solve that problem since the chlorine demand is simply higher than normal and needs to be supplemented in some way.
    I completely agree.

    When I have a pool party I leave the pump on to ensure a more level FC curve instead of spiking the FC at the beginning of the day to handle the load.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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