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Thread: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

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    Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Dear all,
    I am impatiently waiting to get my proper test kit from the other side of the Atlantic - I guess it is somewhere in the middle... anyway I'm tring to get my pool close to what it should be. For the moment I am using Mareva test strips giving the following readings. I know I won't know the full picture until the proper testing kit arrives but I want to start heading in the right direction if possible.
    The readings are the following:

    Free Cl: 10
    Total Cl: 10
    TAC: Approx 30
    CYA Approx 20
    PH 7.5
    Calcium Hardness Approx 150

    I have been running the filtration and SWG 24 hours a day for the moment to try and clear the water up as it is a bit milky. I guess that it why the Cl is so high. I have since turned the level down a bit...
    Any ideas in what direction I should start to go in before I get the proper test kit?

    Thank you all....
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    I'd first try and get your CYA up to 60 to start unless you have some kind of algae. If you don't-----DON'T till it's gone. That will also help you lower your FC level to a more normal 3 or so during the season. PATIENCE! The kit will come!@
    Everything else looks fine.
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Thank you very much for your reply - i went down this morning and bought some conditioner - pretty hard to find in these parts - most people use chlorine tablets or powder so their CYA is normally up there. I would rather use the methods mentioned here in this forum and see how that goes.
    Anyway the pool calculator said that I needed about 10 lbs - I just added about half of that and I'll measure and see where we are. I have also turned down the SWG as I think it was going too hard. Hopefully I'll get the proper test kit this weekend....
    Again thanks for your help.

    Best regards,

    Jonathan
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Jonathan,

    Hold off on adding any more CYA until you get the proper kit. I rarely trust strips and my fear is that your reading of 20 may not be accurate. Adding CYA in a few days when you get your kit is fine, potentially over doing CYA now and getting it out later is a lot harder

    If CYA was truly 20 (low for a swg), I'd have a hard time getting comfortable a swg could raise FC to 10 in murky water combined with sunlight burning off FC due to the low CYA. The kit will be there before you know it. Open up a bottle of POP (Pool Owner Patience)
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Because you are using a test strip to check your chemistry, it is really difficult to say where to go from this point. Test strips are just not normally very accurate.

    Now, because your pool water is cloudy, you may be battling an algae bloom. Now it would appear, based on your test results, that you have no CC and if your CYA is really 20 ppm +/-, a FC of 10 should be very effective in killing any algae. What would tell us more would be a overnight FC loss test. This is accomplished by shutting off your SWCG, testing the FC after the sun sets, and then, before the sun rises in the morning, test the FC again. If there are no contaminants or algae in the pool, your morning FC should be within 0.5 of the one previously sampled in the evening. You can try this with your test strips and see if it works. But I just don't think that the strips would be sensitive enough to detect a subtle change like that.

    Here's hoping that your test kit gets to you soon.

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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Thank you all for contributing. This is very interesting. The sun has just set here now and I have taken readings - admitedly I don't have much faith in the test strips - but this is what they say now. The SWG has run all day at a reduced rate and I also have to say that the highest possible reading on the strips is a max of 10 for FC and TC. Last week I shocked the pool with liquid bleach at 10% as per the calculator so maybe a bit of that is still hanging around. Today has been totally cloudless warmest day of spring so far just getting over 20 degrees (around 70 F.) During the day I added a little Calcium Bi carb for the TAC + as mentioned earlier a bit of CYA to increase that. Point taken I will not add any more CYA until I can get this test kit. It has not arrived today - I'm hoping for the weekend or early next week. This is the numbers for tonight...

    FC 10
    TC 10
    TAC 90
    CYA 50
    PH 7.6
    Calcium 100

    We are certainly getting a lot of pollen here at the moment - there is always a light veil on the surface which translates to brown dust on the bottom. The sides of the pool is clean. The pool is maybe a little clearer - you can see the bottom but it is definately still milky...

    I'm very impatient for the test kit. It will be so nice to know what is really going on...

    Thanks to all

    Jonathan
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Well I finally got my test kit today - wow it does a lot of nice things and some really cool chemistry behind the tests.. anyway this is the data as measured at sunset tonight...

    FC 19.5
    CC 0
    PH 7.4
    TAC 70
    CH 200
    CYA 28
    TEMP 20 degrees C (About 70F)

    The pool is starting to clear up a little - not perfect but kind of ok...

    Any suggestions of the first thing to do with these numbers which from what I know don't look too bad...

    Thanks and best regards to all

    Jonathan
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    A couple of things, double check that CYA reading it seems low, note it can take up to a week for CYA to show up on tests after you add it, also your FC level is at shock levels now if your CYA reading is right usually it would be rounded off to the nearest 10 since the marking on the tube is not linear, most tubes will not be marked below 20.. If the water is still cloudy I would start looking at the filtration system, chlorine just kills stuff that is growing in the water, the filter removes it from the pool. Your signature says you have a sand filter, how old is it, and when was the sand last changed out? Over time the sand gets worn down and gunk builds up that backwashing can't clear.

    Ike
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    A couple of things, double check that CYA reading it seems low, note it can take up to a week for CYA to show up on tests after you add it, also your FC level is at shock levels now if your CYA reading is right usually it would be rounded off to the nearest 10 since the marking on the tube is not linear, most tubes will not be marked below 20..



    I think I got it right but I will check it again - I did however interpolate between 20 and 30 which is possible on the tube I got - I just kept pouring in the liquid until I could not see the black dot at all...

    If the water is still cloudy I would start looking at the filtration system, chlorine just kills stuff that is growing in the water, the filter removes it from the pool. Your signature says you have a sand filter, how old is it, and when was the sand last changed out? Over time the sand gets worn down and gunk builds up that backwashing can't clear. Ike
    I changed the sand 2 years ago but I seem to have difficulty getting the pressure to increase over time - but the other day I backwashed it - the first time in long while and lots of dirt came out - I have every reason to think that the sand is ok. A couple of things with the filter don't make sense though.
    I will not turn on the SWG tomorrow and just let the filter run and see if the FC level slowly drops normally. I'll take another set of readings tomorrow and post that.

    Thanks for your help.

    Best regards

    Jonathan
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    The water is now starting to clear up - its not perfect but certainly getting much better - I still have a lot of pollen to vacuum off the bottom which I'll do in a day or so. The test kit is getting a big workout. I very satisfied with the results and they are consistant. Thanks Dave!
    Here is todays results:

    FC 15
    CC 0
    PH 7.3
    TA 60
    CH 140
    CYA 28

    The CYA has now been stable for 3 days. Should I slowly start to bump this up a little?

    The FC is slowly dropping (about 2 points per day) - I do not have the SWG nor PH doser working - just the filter so I guess that is pretty normal...

    Thanks for your suggestions...

    Jonathan
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Something seems inconsistent in your results. If CYA was really 28 and FC 15 and the pool is outdoors, then you should be losing way more of your FC level each day, even on cloudy days with a fair amount of shade. The most obvious possibility is that CYA is actually much higher, though I suppose the FC results could be wrong instead. However, CYA tests are usually much less reliable than FC tests and I see that one of your CYA results was significantly higher. Are you using the TF100 for the recent results? What were you using for the older results?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Thanks for your reply. I NOW have a TF-100 test. I have done 5 tests with this kit in the last few days to confirm. Before this I was using strips. These numbers now, at least as far as I can figure, are accurate. It seems to me that I loose about 2PPM each day of FC. The CYA seems stable. I did add a little CYA last week. I have the SWG and PH doser off. I have never used or on very rare occasions solid chlorine. I put some liquid chlorine in last week up to shock level (thinking I needed to do this) and this seems to be taking quite some time to come down.

    We have had sunny days and the pool is pretty well in the sun all day.

    At what rates would you expect to see the FC come down?

    Thanks,
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    With CYA around 30 you should be losing more than 50% of your starting FC level to sunlight each day. Higher FC levels mean more FC lost to sunlight, since loss is always a percentage of the starting FC level.
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Well this is very interesting - I have to get to the bottom of this..I have just gone and tested again. The Taylor test is giving a result of FC above 5. The Mareva test strip is giving a FC above 10. (Max on the scale). The drop test with the TF-100 has just given me a test of 14.5 (29 drops). The CC is 0. So from this data it seems the FC is where it is.
    Now the CYA on the Mareva strip is testing at around 20 - 30 not so easy to be sure here with the colours. The Taylor test AGAIN gave me a reading of 30. I nearly have to fill the tube completely for the black dot to COMPLETELY disappear. I am sure that I'm doing these tests properly - I have read and reread the instructions. I only got the Kit on Thursday and I have nearly used half of the liquid for the CYA test!

    I vacummed the bottom of the pool now as there was a bit of pollen on the bottom + then I have brushed - this has stirred up the visibility a little. The SWG has been off all day and yesterday.

    Are there any other suggestions as to what could be causing the FC to hold up with apparently so little CYA?

    Thanks - this is most intereting...
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Let's go through the testing process for CYA.
    Did you combine equal parts testing reagent and pool water?
    Did you shake the combined testing reagent and pool water to mix well?
    Did you allow the solution to sit undisturbed for 30 seconds?
    Did you shake the combined solution again?
    Did you hold the view tube at waist level while slowly pouring the solution in?
    Are you reading the results outside with the sun at your back?

    It is best to double check the results by pouring the solution back into the mixing bottle and reading the test again. Most folks here go for the best 2 out of 3.

    Also be sure your pump has been running at least 1/2 hour before collecting a water sample to test.
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3
    Let's go through the testing process for CYA.
    Did you combine equal parts testing reagent and pool water?
    Yes
    Did you shake the combined testing reagent and pool water to mix well?
    Yes
    [quote:t8d0pr9t]
    Did you allow the solution to sit undisturbed for 30 seconds?
    Did you shake the combined solution again?
    Did you hold the view tube at waist level while slowly pouring the solution in?

    Yes

    Are you reading the results outside with the sun at your back?

    Outside in the terrace which is in the shade.

    It is best to double check the results by pouring the solution back into the mixing bottle and reading the test again. Most folks here go for the best 2 out of 3.

    Did not do that but redid the test at least 4 times with the same answer. The Mareva backed up the numbers as well - even though there is some doubt about their accuracy.

    Am I defying the laws of chemistry ??

    Also be sure your pump has been running at least 1/2 hour before collecting a water sample to test.[/quote:t8d0pr9t]

    The water is well mixed - the only thing that I have is pollen from the trees in the pool - any connection there?
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    I found this quote on another web site: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums ... px#1390810

    "The CYA guideline of a maximum of 75 ppm with a preferred range of 30 to 50 ppm is very reasonable, especially for France where even southern France isn't at a latitude where the chlorine loss due to sunlight would be high enough to (normally) justify a high CYA. So I now see that you couldn't operate at 100 ppm CYA by regulation, though you could at 75 ppm. I was mostly giving that as an example of the principle, not saying you or anyone should do it. In the southern U.S., however, such as in Arizona, parts of Texas, Florida, etc. the sun shines so intensely overhead that chlorine loss from sunlight is the biggest loss by far -- way, way more than that from bather load in residential pools (in commercial/public pools with high-bather load, it's still the bather load which dominates, so anything above around 30 ppm CYA isn't that helpful -- but they don't generally use active filters as you do). It turns out that the traditional graphs of chlorine loss at varying CYA levels aren't right and that there is a non-linear beneficial effect at higher CYA levels. So in the southern climates, running a pool at higher CYA levels even with proportionately higher FC levels (i.e. at the same active chlorine level) uses a LOT less chlorine (saves 50% or more FC usage per day). In the U.S., the rules are by state, not national, but are essentially the same in every state at 1-4 ppm FC limits and 100 ppm CYA maximum."

    Is there any merit in this article and could this be the reason that my FC is only going down at a rate of 2PPM per day?

    Thank you,
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    I agree with everything you quoted from the article. I haven't read the entire article. Sure there is some difference because you are further north, but it shouldn't be that large. Of course I don't have any other ideas, so I'm stumped.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    I wrote that on a "Swimming Pools in France" forum 2-1/2 years ago. However, that was referring more to the northern latitudes closer to Paris. Monaco is further south and gets a reasonable amount of sun, though this time of year the sun is still somewhat low in the sky (though climbing, of course). Nevertheless, only losing 2 ppm FC per day when the FC is at around 15 ppm is unusual at a low 30 ppm CYA level for an uncovered pool exposed to sunlight.

    So I'm stumped as well. I certainly wouldn't be increasing the CYA at this point.
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    Re: Impatiently Trying to get my Pool "Close" to being Right

    Dear all,
    I have again tested today with the results still showing the same tendancy as before. Here are the results for Tuesday 12th April.
    FC 11.0
    PH 7.6
    TA 60
    CH 130
    CYA 35

    This time I repoured the CYA test liquid at least 5 times. The highest result I got was 50. The lowest around 30.
    Do you pour CYA test liquid until you can't see the spot anymore first time? If you wait 3 or 4 seconds you get to be able to see the spot again and of course you need to pour more until it has really completely disappeared.
    The water in the pool is fairly clear but not perfect. I vacuumed the pollen to waste yesterday and that makes a difference and it makes the pool look a whole lot better.
    Is it possible there could be a problem with the test liquid for the CYA? It is brand new. I see that someone else has also had some strange CYA readings...
    strange-test-results-and-cya-level-t29814.html

    I still would really like to find out what is going on. I have not added and do not intend to at this time more CYA.

    I looked into buying another CYA test as a comparison but it was ridiculously expensive...

    Thanks for your help..
    Location: Monaco - South of France...
    IG Concrete, tiles and plaster. Pool size: 100M3 (26,417 US Gallons) Sand/Gravel Filter Astor 99 cross section 0.44M2 (4.74 sq. ft.) holds 290 kg (639 lbs) sand/gravel also sometimes with some DE inside. Pacific Sel SWG, Pacific PH Automatic Doser.
    Pump size 1.6HP 24M3/hour (6340 US gal/hour)

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