Is it ok to just use fibermesh in a concrete pool deck instead of using rebar or wire mesh?
Fibermesh or Wire Mesh for IG VL Pool deck
- Thread starter briansturgeon
- Start date
Nearly everywhere the deck needs to be bonded within three feet of the pool. The simplest way to do that is with rebar. You often see rebar only near the pool; with fiber used on the same pour further away from the pool.
Do you happen to have some good pics illustrating this?
Also, why do I see some concrete decks have a large caulked expansion gap about 18" or so out from the pool where it meets the other part of the deck and some don't have this large caulked gap?
Is it not always needed?
Thanks
Also, why do I see some concrete decks have a large caulked expansion gap about 18" or so out from the pool where it meets the other part of the deck and some don't have this large caulked gap?
Is it not always needed?
Thanks
To bond a deck, you need to put wire mesh from the edge of the pool out to a 3 foot perimeter. That attaches to the bond wire for the pool. Has nothing to do with the structure of the deck. Thats a separate issue from structural mesh or rebar, although its the same wire mesh they use for structural integrity.
As to the rebar vs mesh vs fiber. Most guys go with fiber. Its good stuff and makes for a sturdy pour. What happens with wire mesh is that in the end it typically lays on the ground anyway and they just pour concrete on top of it and never raise it up into the middle of the concrete. makes it useless structurally so mixing in the fiber is a better way to go, IMO.
About the expansion joint. The proper way to pour the coping aand deck (if you go with the bullnose aluminum track or poured cantilever) is to do it in 2 stages. Pour the coping first. Let that set up and cure a couple of day, then pour the deck behind it. That way you have a true expansion joint to earth. If the deck settles, it wont crack the coping of the top of the pool. When you see the casulked joint, they did it correctly, IMO.
As to the rebar vs mesh vs fiber. Most guys go with fiber. Its good stuff and makes for a sturdy pour. What happens with wire mesh is that in the end it typically lays on the ground anyway and they just pour concrete on top of it and never raise it up into the middle of the concrete. makes it useless structurally so mixing in the fiber is a better way to go, IMO.
About the expansion joint. The proper way to pour the coping aand deck (if you go with the bullnose aluminum track or poured cantilever) is to do it in 2 stages. Pour the coping first. Let that set up and cure a couple of day, then pour the deck behind it. That way you have a true expansion joint to earth. If the deck settles, it wont crack the coping of the top of the pool. When you see the casulked joint, they did it correctly, IMO.
So basically you could end up with variation in color doing it that way. Makes sense what you say it just seems as if you have more to worry about in terms of matching it up. If you do it that way how far out from the coping should you pour for your first pour?
If people don't do it this way how do they do it to still ensure cracking/settling doesn't really bite you?
I thought someone once mentioned to me that pool decks are saw cut and don't have joints put in them like sidewalks and such. Is this true?
Sorry for all the questions I'm just trying to understand the proper or best procedure for things to take place and that way I make sure it is done that way.
Thanks.
If people don't do it this way how do they do it to still ensure cracking/settling doesn't really bite you?
I thought someone once mentioned to me that pool decks are saw cut and don't have joints put in them like sidewalks and such. Is this true?
Sorry for all the questions I'm just trying to understand the proper or best procedure for things to take place and that way I make sure it is done that way.
Thanks.
briansturgeon said:
If you wwent with color, yea, a match issue could occur. A lot of the colored, stamped stuff i've seen where they do 2 pours the coping is a companion color to the rest of the deck. The stamp can be different too. When you do a deck in stone or pavers, the coping is often a different stone of differing textures and color, so its not unusual.
15-18 inches in width is a good rule of thumb.
They dont!briansturgeon said:
Yes, they saw cut the deck joints. But, IMO, to do it right, the coping joint should be to earth.
One thing about concrete. It will crack at some point. Where it cracks can be controlled somewhat, but it will crack.
Duh. I should have thought about the different color thing. That would look better anyway.
Two more questions -
What is the recommended fall for that 18" to drain water away from pool?
What about using a deck drain like http://www.quakerplastic.com/quakerplas ... joint.html instead of caulking the gap?
Thanks again.
Two more questions -
What is the recommended fall for that 18" to drain water away from pool?
What about using a deck drain like http://www.quakerplastic.com/quakerplas ... joint.html instead of caulking the gap?
Thanks again.
I have a similar type of drain installed around my pool directly between 20" of cantilever edge concrete and the remaining concrete decking. It seems to work very well for drainage. Also, there are spaced covers on the top of the drain that can be opened for cleaning out. Every so often, I squirt the pressure washer in through the opening to blow any debris out.
- I think you mean wire mesh and/or rebar. I just went through this with my town.
I'm putting #3 rebar roughly 12"oc around the perimter of the pool, tied together, and bonding it to my copper bonding wire along with everthing else that's supposed to be bonded.
I'm curious as to why everybody thinks adding metal (reinforcing steel, mesh) to concrete is required under the electrical code. It is correct that code does require any "metal added" to the concrete to be bonded. You all seem to have it backwards.
As for the mesh question, use both, (fibermesh is about $12 per cy) they serve different purposes. Fiber mesh prevents early plastic shrinkage cracking. Once a crack is formed it does nothing. Wire mesh doesn't prevent cracking. Its sole purpose it crack control. It holds cracks tightly together so that the slab on each side of the crack remain in the same plane through the mechanism of aggregate interlock.
Also everybody seem to be confused as to exactly what a crack is.
In a properly jointed slab, the control joints are placed to allow a slab to crack in a straight line along the joint (similar to scoring glass to cut it) In an improperly jointed slab (control joints spaced incorrectly or at the wrong depth) you will have "random cracking". Caulking of joints is required in order to prevent ice damage (water freezing in the joint causing edge spalling) and to prevent rusting of the reinforcing.
On of the best products on the market for pool is the mortex joint (http://www.mortex.com)
As for a "coping joint" when using bullnose aluminum track or poured cantilever it not only isn't need, but if installed should be a cut control joint not an expansion joint.
JB
I will post pictures to this thread of a 19 year of a bullnose aluminum track with out any random cracks along the pool.(or anywhere for that matter)
JB
As for the mesh question, use both, (fibermesh is about $12 per cy) they serve different purposes. Fiber mesh prevents early plastic shrinkage cracking. Once a crack is formed it does nothing. Wire mesh doesn't prevent cracking. Its sole purpose it crack control. It holds cracks tightly together so that the slab on each side of the crack remain in the same plane through the mechanism of aggregate interlock.
Also everybody seem to be confused as to exactly what a crack is.
In a properly jointed slab, the control joints are placed to allow a slab to crack in a straight line along the joint (similar to scoring glass to cut it) In an improperly jointed slab (control joints spaced incorrectly or at the wrong depth) you will have "random cracking". Caulking of joints is required in order to prevent ice damage (water freezing in the joint causing edge spalling) and to prevent rusting of the reinforcing.
On of the best products on the market for pool is the mortex joint (http://www.mortex.com)
As for a "coping joint" when using bullnose aluminum track or poured cantilever it not only isn't need, but if installed should be a cut control joint not an expansion joint.
JB
I will post pictures to this thread of a 19 year of a bullnose aluminum track with out any random cracks along the pool.(or anywhere for that matter)
JB
NEC code 680.26 (B) (2) "An equipotential bonding grid must extend 3 ft horizontally beyond the inside walls of a pool . . ." Older editions used to specifically call for a conductive mesh, while new versions are a little more flexible, but no matter how you do it there must be metal of some kind.
Pool&PondSlave said:
Any pour concrete coping is best installed using a true "to earth" expansion joint. While a given solid poured deck/coping may not crack, far fewer problems will be encountered over time with a true expansion joint.
What jason said about a bondng grid.
When did the code change to require equipotential bonding grid? 2005?
Poured 1988, Picture Taken 2007 (the day I ripped out the pool)
Please note the jointing and no cracking!
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... 07pool.jpg
Poured 1988, Picture Taken 2007 (the day I ripped out the pool)
Please note the jointing and no cracking!
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... 07pool.jpg
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