Need assistance with new pump

[Nod]

Right now, I have a DP 30 Amp breaker in my main panel, running back to my pool subpanel. In my subpanel, I have 2 20Amp SP GFCI breakers. One supplies the Pool light, the other the pool pump, which is a single speed Hayward 1HP pump. The pump is on a mechanical t103 intermatic timer.

I just purchased a Jandy dual speed pump that can run 120 or 240. I also purchased a Compupool salt system and want to hardwire in a booster pump for my cleaner.

I want to purchase the retrofit intermatic p1353me timer to run the dual speed pump and booster pump and possibly the salt water system.

I don't know how to wire it, and need to know what I need to do to make the work right and be up to code?

Here are the pics of wire diagrams, etc. Do I need new circuit breakers? I assume I will. Does each pump have to have its own dedicated breaker? I'm at a loss. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Nod

 

[Nod]

Add'l Pics of New Pump

 

[lightingguy]

In my experience "I'm at a loss" and 240v wiring of $2000 worth or equipment maybe doesn't go together.

I dont want to be too negative. We can certainly walk you through it.

But are you sure the couple hundred bucks a closely supervised electrician would cost you is worth avoiding?

 

[Bama Rambler]

I'm going to echo what Lightingguy said. Going on the questions you asked I'd recommend hiring an electrician to connect everything. I'm a huge believer in DIY but there comes a time to call someone else. There are several changes you're going to need to make and without a good understanding of what you need to do it's better left to a professional. How many spaces do you have in your sub-panel?

Yes, we could walk you though it, but if you misinterpret what you need to do, you're going to possibly cost yourself more than the cost of an electrician.

 

[Nod]

Pointless if you don't wish to share your knowledge. Why have forums on any diy subject if you are going to send them to a professional. While I understand electricity is a touchy subject, you still can talk about it.

Oh well, guess I'll start messing with this on my own.

Pointless...

 

[Bama Rambler]

Sorry you're upset about it but I don't want you to get yourself hurt.

I'll be glad to help you if you're willing to understand and accept all the responsibility for anything that can and does happen.

You didn't say how many spaces you have in the sub-panel. That's where you're going to have to start.

 

[Nod]

I have 2 spaces left... Btw, I am pulling a permit to have a checked afterwards. I am thinking a 20amp dp gfci breaker to fill it.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Well there's your first problem. If both of your pumps are 230 volt, then each of your pumps will need a 2-pole breaker. So you'll need a 6-space sub-panel. By the way, the picture of the new pump is 230 volts only, not 120/230. Even if your booster pump is 120 volt you still need at least a 6 space panel.

Here is a great wiring diagram for just what you're wanting to do. Look at Mode 4.

 

[bk406]

With a pool light, and 2 pumps, 30 amps is going to be close on power out there. Are you sure the 30 amps is enough? Where does you convenience outlet feed from?

 

[bk406]

Well there's your first problem. If both of your pumps are 230 volt, then each of your pumps will need a 2-pole breaker. So you'll need a 6-space sub-panel. By the way, the picture of the new pump is 230 volts only, not 120/230. Even if your booster pump is 120 volt you still need at least a 6 space panel.

Here is a great wiring diagram for just what you're wanting to do. Look at Mode 4.

Be very careful with electricity Nod

 

[Nod]

Luckily, the conv. outlet is on the main panel. It was already there when the house was built and fell within the pool code standards, GFCI, footage, etc... So it is not on the same 30 Amps.

 

[Bama Rambler]

I think you'll be ok with the 30 amps as long as the pumps are 230 volt and the only other thing on it is the light. Especially given the fact that if you use the P1353 the two pumps can't ever start at the same time. You'll be close though.

 

[Nod]

Does each pump have to have its own dedicated circuit, or can I run both on the same circuit? Also, I have the pool lamp and SWG.

On the SWG do I completely trust the flow switch in it, that it will turn on/off, or do I wire it with the pump as a secondary on/off switch? I have seen others do this, but I would think this would violate code if the pump has to be on its on circuit.

The code part, is where I am at a loss. I can do the wiring, but I want it to code, so if/when I sell the house and an inspector looks at the wiring, it will be done correctly and there will be no worry that if the wiring is half-@ssed, what else is wrong...

 

[Bama Rambler]

Yes each piece of equipment will have to have it's own circuit. So that's two for each pump, one for the light, one for the swcg, and one for the timer. So I miscounted, you need 7 circuts and you need to add another timer circuit too. So that's 4 total timer circuits.

 

[Nod]

I am going to have to upgrade the sub then. Probably be cheaper in the long run if I can do it this way:

I will run new lines through the conduit (10gauge) now. I guess I will go to a 60amp subpanel. Rather than installing individual GFCI breakers, can I just install a the main breaker a GFCI and then use standard breakers for each circuit?

This would be a lot cheaper in the future if I can do that. I want it to be completely safe too. I know the one problem with that is troubleshooting in the future. If something starts tripping it, it will take a little bit more work to narrow it down, but shouldn't be much more, than turning on each breaker until i hit the one that trips it.

So anyhow, I run a 60 amp subpanel and that should give me room to upgrade rather than begin thinking about illegal junctions, etc.... It will also look nicer.

Let me know, if you think a single GFCI 60Amp breaker will suffice?

 

[bk406]

You need a GFCI breaker for each circuit.

 

[Nod]

Now I have found others stating that is not the case. Why GFCI for each circuit if it is GFCI protected at the main. I will have to start looking at section 680 of NEC to figure this out.

 

[bk406]

Now I have found others stating that is not the case. .

680 wont give you the answer. That section only pertains to pools, not sub panels.

You have to GFCI protect each branch circuit that reqiures it. A feeder style GFI on the panel will not meet the NEC minimums.

 

[Nod]

I did mention it would be harder to run down a trouble, but code/safety wise, it provides the same protection. It wouldn't be super hard to figure it out. Just start flipping breakers on until it trips.

680.23, did mention branch circuit GFCI on lights only. That is the only mention of it. Now one could make the argument that by putting in gfci at the main, that extends to the luminaire branch. I think I'll have a chat with my local inspector.

Heck, just a few years ago, I could throw the pump on a standard breaker and call it a day.

Going to lowes....

 

[Nod]

So after going to lowes, I had to make some changes due to wire costs. Man $1 ft for 6ga can add up quickly. I have 10guage at home (spool). So I am going to add another 30 amp panel. I am installing the 30 amp DP GFCI in the main panel, running the the #10 wires to the new sub. I will install a DP 20amp breaker for the new pump, SP 20 amp for the booster pump, and SP 20 amp for the switch itself. All of this will be GFCI protected at the main. Sure, it will be a PITA to troubleshoot if the GFCI starts tripping, but it saves a lot of money doing it that way and doesn't sacrifice safety.

As for amperage, that should be fine too, since pump 2 doesn't come on until after pump one has been on for a few seconds therefore never needing the full startup amps together.

The other (current) panel will run my lamp on its own dedicated 20amp sp GFCI branch circuit and SWG on a dedicated 20amp sp GFCI branch circuit.