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Thread: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Well, it's just about time to replace my squeaky pump motor. I plan on replacing it with a 2-speed, keeping the same 1.5 SFHP so I can run the in-floor cleaner properly on high speed. I need some help buying the right thing!

    Looks like I can get a WhisperFlo for about $650, a TriStar for $600, and Stealth is comparable as well. If I opt to replace just the motor, I can do that for ~1/3 the price. It looks like the AO Smith USQ 1152 is the appropriate motor; can someone confirm that? It's SFHP is 1.6, which seems close enough.

    My current timer is an Intermatic for a single speed pump. Will I need to replace that, or is there a way to just switch to high speed manually when the pool needs cleaning?

    Thanks all.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    If you mean the UQS1152R then, yes that's a good match.

    If you have the T104R in a double enclosure then adding a T106M to the enclosure is the way to go. If you have a single enclosure you may be better off buying the T10604R unit complete.

    ETA~~ You can run the pump on low speed with the timer and manually switch it to high when needed.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    The SP3010X152AZ is the Super II two speed version of the pump you now have and the motor number is SPX1610Z2M. You can find a direct replacement or go for a cross reference.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    OK, so I might have put this off for another year. This seems too stupid to be true: the WFDS-4 and WFDS-26 are exactly the same pump, but I've found quite a difference in prices. At LEAST $50 cheaper for the -26...am I missing something important?

    I'm looking mainly at Hayward and Pentair; the pump curves for the Jandys seem to be quite a bit higher or lower than my current pump. The Tristar is a bit lower flow and the WFDS-26 is a bit higher flow than my current pump. I don't think either is far enough off to make a difference.

    edit: Jandy is out; their pumps are way taller than the other two brands and would require a lot more work to make 'em fit!
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    OK, so I might have put this off for another year. This seems too stupid to be true: the WFDS-4 and WFDS-26 are exactly the same pump, but I've found quite a difference in prices. At LEAST $50 cheaper for the -26...am I missing something important?
    Not missing anything, it is just marketing. Go for the best price.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    I found the same thing with the -24 $75 cheaper than the -3 from the same store. Although now I am going to probably be getting a SuperFlo instead.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Thanks Mark!

    Jason - thought about that, but my pipes are 2".

    Another question - I assume these pumps come with the unions?
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    To me it looked like the whisperflo needed male fittings while the superflo came with unions ... but would love confirmation.

    Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    The Whisperflo has a threaded connection but no unions. You would have to supply those yourself.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Looking at the current installation, I don't think I can put in anything new without replacing a valve, which would then mean I could look at the Jandys again. I just don't see a way to fit anything without cutting below the elbows and building from there. Look the same to all y'all?

    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    That is what I see as well ... and those valves are not too cheap ... Just ordered 6 of them for $266 (although I am only replacing 1 check valve and 1 3-way, the others are additional.

    Hard to keep enough pipe for future changes.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    OK, gonna buy something today. I'm trying to estimate head loss/operating point for my system; Mark usually works this magic for people but I'd like to understand it myself

    My filter pressure varies because of the in-floor cleaner; I'm going to use 20 as an average.
    Return head = 20*2.31+2=48' (added 2 instead of 3 because my filter is short)
    Suction head = I'm not sure how to calculate this one. I've got 2x 2" suction lines, skimmer line ~10', drain line ~30'. Using just one line at a time, I estimate ~6.5' for the skimmer line (assuming 10' of 2" pipe and 5 90s) and ~8.5' for the drain line (30' pipe, 5 90s). I understand that with both open, head loss will be less than either individually, so I'll pretend it's 5.
    That gives me about 53' of head total.

    At 53' of head, my current pump is giving me 81 gpm.
    Tristar SP32102EE (1.85 SFHP) ~93 gpm
    Whisperflo WFDS-26 (1.65 SFHP) ~85 gpm
    Stealth SPHF 1.0 (1.65 SFHP) ~93 gpm
    Costs are comparable for all of them.

    Looking at this it seems that the Jandy is a bit more efficient than the other two at the operating point. Does this look sound to everyone? Still gotta measure to see if I can fit the Jandy on the pad...
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    53' is pretty close to what I get as well but keep in mind that head changes with different pumps. You can find the operating point for other pumps by creating a plumbing curve. If you know that you have 53' of head @ 81 GPM then your plumbing curve will look like this:

    Head (ft) = 0.0081 * GPM^2

    This is pretty close to the CEC Curve-C so you can use that for a comparison. Also, you can then plot that over any head curve to find the new operating point. Here is what I get for each pump plus I added another Whisperflo:

    Super II SP3010EEAZ - 79 GPM @ 52', 1643 Watts, 2.90 gallons/watt-hr
    Tristar SP32102EE (1.85 SFHP) - 88 GPM @ 63', 1978 watts, 2.67 gallons/watt-hr
    Whisperflo WFDS-24 (1.25 SFHP) - 78 GPM @ 50', 1592 watts, 2.93 gallons/watt-hr
    Whisperflo WFDS-26 (1.65 SFHP) - 82 GPM @ 55', 1880 watts, 2.62 gallons/watt-hr
    Stealth SPHF 1.0 (1.65 SFHP) - 85 GPM @ 59', 1930 watts, 2.64 gallons/watt-hr

    Note that the WFDS-24 is close to the same operating point as your old pump but has better efficiency.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    Looking at the current installation, I don't think I can put in anything new without replacing a valve, which would then mean I could look at the Jandys again. I just don't see a way to fit anything without cutting below the elbows and building from there. Look the same to all y'all?

    I ran into a similar situation with our plumbing when I switched from a WhisperFlo to an IntelliFlo. I think you could cut the vacuum side about 1/4" or so onto the 2" connector near the pump and then clean that piece of connector with a flathead screwdriver. It looks like the 2" pipe is painted, so you would have to remove that, and then use plenty of primer. But if you were able to clean up enough, then you could use that free end to connect up a union. An alternative would be to cut the connector near the valve and use a 1.5" pipe to fit inside the Jandy valve to the union. As for the output, you should have enough pipe there to install a union between the output port of the pump and the existing plumbing. If not, you may need to heighten the plumbing a bit with standard 2" PVC, but this would be pretty trivial.
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Thanks Craig...I think I'm just gonna suck it up and buy another valve. It's just easier that way, and I'll be sure it'll work. I'm not worried about the pressure side, since there's plenty of room there; plus I need to get a new hose bib since that one is cheap plastic and leaks catastrophically...I had to put a cap on it for the last few months.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    What's that hose bib for, BTW? Does that run a pressure side cleaner or something?
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    It's for draining the pool painfully slowly...
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    It's for draining the pool painfully slowly...
    Or taking a water sample
    Or hooking a hose to it with sprayer to play with while swimming

    Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Well, the Tristar is on the way. The WFDS-24 would have been great, but it's only 110v and it would be a huge pain to switch it over.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Finally shopping for a new pump/motor

    Anybody see any problem using an inside pipe fitting so I don't have to chop out the valve? It'll decrease the ID of the pipe, but only for 3 inches or so. I can't imagine that would make an appreciable difference...?
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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