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Thread: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

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    Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    So......Brand new pool (see spec's in signature).....When first filled with water, and in regular pool circulation mode, (return valve set at 75%pool and 25%spa) I could set the intelliflo to 1500rpm and water would push through both the pool, and the spa. The spa has an overflow that goes down to the pool. All suction is from pool. There is a check valve on the spa return due to it being +24" in elevation.

    All of that is completely normal, right?

    Then, about 2 months later, I noticed that water was no longer flowing to the spa. I had to boost the RPM to 2100rpm to get water to go to spa again. Filter pressure had not changed at all, but I backwashed anyway just in case, NO CHANGE! I opened the check valve and made sure it moved freely and had no obstructions. Pool builder is stumped.
    I can accept that 1500rpm might be a little slow to run the pump, but I can't understand why it has changed?

    Any Ideas????
    13,800 gallon in-ground, gunite pool and spa with pebble-sheen surface and infinity edge.
    Intelli-flo variable speed pump for pool and spa, whisper-flo 2hp for infinity edge. Booster pump for cleaner.
    Easy- Touch 8 controller with salt water generator. DE filter.
    Spa is elevated 24" above pool eleavation.
    Equipment is at spa elevation.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    mas985's Avatar
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    Pleasanton, CA
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    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    Most changes in plumbing and/or flow rate will be reflected in the filter pressure. Are you absolutely sure the filter pressure did not change?

    Turn the valve to 100% spa - Record filter pressure
    Turn the valve to 100% pool - Record filter pressure
    Return valve to original position - Record filter pressure

    Post all filter pressures.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    Yes....however, I am sure that plaster dust had accumulated in the filter. So I backwashed to make absolutely sure that the filter was allowing maximum flow.
    I am going to go out right now and put the multiport valve in bypass to see if it flows properly with no filter in-line......will post back in a few....
    13,800 gallon in-ground, gunite pool and spa with pebble-sheen surface and infinity edge.
    Intelli-flo variable speed pump for pool and spa, whisper-flo 2hp for infinity edge. Booster pump for cleaner.
    Easy- Touch 8 controller with salt water generator. DE filter.
    Spa is elevated 24" above pool eleavation.
    Equipment is at spa elevation.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    ok, here is the status....
    With the filter bypassed, it takes 1750rpm to see a tiny bit of circulation to the spa.
    With the filter in line, it takes 2050rpm to see a tiny bit of circulation in the spa.

    Originally, with the filter inline, I could get decent circulation in the spa at 1500rpm.
    13,800 gallon in-ground, gunite pool and spa with pebble-sheen surface and infinity edge.
    Intelli-flo variable speed pump for pool and spa, whisper-flo 2hp for infinity edge. Booster pump for cleaner.
    Easy- Touch 8 controller with salt water generator. DE filter.
    Spa is elevated 24" above pool eleavation.
    Equipment is at spa elevation.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    What type of returns does the pool have? Wall, wall with directional eyeballs, floor?

    Have you cleaned the salt cell? If it was dirty, it would force more water towards the spa, and after it was cleaned, it would allow more water towards the pool.

    If the booster pump is running, that will pull water away from the spa.

    What is the make and model of the check valve.

    Is the return valve still in the same position? (return valve set at 75%pool and 25%spa)

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    Wall returns with eyeballs.
    Salt cell was not yet installed when problem started.
    Booster pump not running
    Check valve is pentair. Not sure about model number. 2"
    Return valve was in same position. Although I moved it to 50/50 and it made no difference.
    13,800 gallon in-ground, gunite pool and spa with pebble-sheen surface and infinity edge.
    Intelli-flo variable speed pump for pool and spa, whisper-flo 2hp for infinity edge. Booster pump for cleaner.
    Easy- Touch 8 controller with salt water generator. DE filter.
    Spa is elevated 24" above pool eleavation.
    Equipment is at spa elevation.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    You said you backwashed the filter. I would try opening up the filter and completely hosing off the grids. Backwashing alone is on a DE filter is not always enough to clean the grids. Since you have a new pool plaster dust is going to dirty the filter enough to reduce the flow. Backwash again, then open the filter and see if all the DE released from the grid fabric. If not, take out the grids and hose them off, and hose out the body of the filter as well. Put everything back and recharge with fresh DE. See if this helps and let us know how it goes.
    TFP Moderator
    Helpful links: TF Test Kits,TFP Pool School, PoolMath
    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
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  8. Back To Top    #8
    mas985's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Most changes in plumbing and/or flow rate will be reflected in the filter pressure. Are you absolutely sure the filter pressure did not change?

    Turn the valve to 100% spa - Record filter pressure
    Turn the valve to 100% pool - Record filter pressure
    Return valve to original position - Record filter pressure

    Post all filter pressures.
    It would be helpful to have the filter pressure.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    The valve for the spa has an actuator on it. It has 2 positions, 75/25 or 100% spa. I can use the switch to adjust it anywhere in between, but not all the way to 100% pool.

    Pump speed max (3450rpm)
    With valve at 75/25 position, 23psi at filter
    with valve at 100% spa, 30psi at filter

    Pump speed 2100rpm
    75/25 position, 10psi
    100% spa, 11psi
    13,800 gallon in-ground, gunite pool and spa with pebble-sheen surface and infinity edge.
    Intelli-flo variable speed pump for pool and spa, whisper-flo 2hp for infinity edge. Booster pump for cleaner.
    Easy- Touch 8 controller with salt water generator. DE filter.
    Spa is elevated 24" above pool eleavation.
    Equipment is at spa elevation.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,489

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    30 PSI for the spa seems a little high but it depends on the spa design. Can you describe the spa: number and type/size jets , diameter and length of suction return pipe.

    Also, when in 100% spa mode or any other mode, can you tell if the check valve is fully open? Pentair check valves have a clear window so you should be able to tell.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    spa has 2" send and return. at the spa, the return is looped to 8 wall jets. Not sure of the type of jets, but they are very standard. I know that doesn't help, but thats all i know. The eyeball fittings have about a half inch opening.
    The check valve appears to be all the way open when in spa mode at full speed, but when in pool mode (75/25 valve position) the check valve is barely cracked open. The pool mode speed is 2100 rpm.
    13,800 gallon in-ground, gunite pool and spa with pebble-sheen surface and infinity edge.
    Intelli-flo variable speed pump for pool and spa, whisper-flo 2hp for infinity edge. Booster pump for cleaner.
    Easy- Touch 8 controller with salt water generator. DE filter.
    Spa is elevated 24" above pool eleavation.
    Equipment is at spa elevation.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    mas985's Avatar
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    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,489

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    The only thing I can think off is that there might be something stuck in one or more of the spa jets but you should be able to tell with the pump at full speed and 100% to the spa. If one or more of the jets looks/feels weaker than the others you can remove them and see if anything gets flushed out with the pump on full speed.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    I am not sure I know how to remove a jet? I will try running the spa and C
    Checking for equal pressure.
    13,800 gallon in-ground, gunite pool and spa with pebble-sheen surface and infinity edge.
    Intelli-flo variable speed pump for pool and spa, whisper-flo 2hp for infinity edge. Booster pump for cleaner.
    Easy- Touch 8 controller with salt water generator. DE filter.
    Spa is elevated 24" above pool eleavation.
    Equipment is at spa elevation.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    Most jet nozzels can be removed with a deep socket on an extension.

    Is the hair and lint strainer clean?

    If you have removed the cleaner from the poolside fitting, it could have reduced the head to the pool enough to affect the flow to the spa.

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Interesting plumbing issue / problem

    is it possible that even with the cleaner connected and the booster pump off that there would be head loss?
    13,800 gallon in-ground, gunite pool and spa with pebble-sheen surface and infinity edge.
    Intelli-flo variable speed pump for pool and spa, whisper-flo 2hp for infinity edge. Booster pump for cleaner.
    Easy- Touch 8 controller with salt water generator. DE filter.
    Spa is elevated 24" above pool eleavation.
    Equipment is at spa elevation.

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