Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: I need some advice from concrete experts

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    352

    I need some advice from concrete experts

    We are about 10 days from plaster on my pool and I'm still not happy with the coping or the decking.

    The coping was poured on 2/10/11. The guys used an on site mixer and moved the concrete with wheel barrows. My PB likes to have the concrete mixed on site because they use a larger size aggregate. The concrete was colored "Kailua" using Davis Colors. It is a poured in place cantilevered coping with a "Regular" Stegmeier form. There was a little bit of wind on the day of the pour, but it looked like the guys kept it fairly wet. I misted the coping 1 or 2 more times that night, and I wet it down about 4-6 times a day for the next 2 weeks. Weather was fairly mild.

    I've been watching it for about 40 days now and I'm still not happy. My PB suggests that we can do a light sand blasting; that should even out the color and make most of the problems go away. Another option is to 'seal' the coping. I'm not wild about that option, I don't want any gloss and I don't want it slippery.

    I'm going to try and link several photos. I'll try to put them up in this order:

    Overview of the coping with no sun
    Overview of the coping in the sun
    Section 1 - No Sun - Dry
    Section 1 - No Sun - Wet
    Section 1 - Sun - Dry
    Section 1 - Sun - Wet
    Section 1 - No Sun - Wet with crazing
    Section 1 - No Sun - Wet with crazing less obvious

    Section 2 - No Sun - Dry
    Section 2 - No Sun - Wet
    Section 2 - Sun - Wet











    40x20 Free Form IG Pool (aprox 29,000 Gal, 140 Perimeter, depth 3'6"-7', Baja Shelf, 8x8 Free Form Spa) - Gunite Shell, Pebble Plaster Finish, Poured Concrete Coping - 3 Deep Heat Returns - Jandy LXi400 Gas Heater (400,000 Btu) - Jandy Variable Speed Pump JEP 2.0 - Jandy CL 600 Filter - HASA Liquidator - Jandy PDA 6 w/ Remote - 4x Jandy WaterColors Pool LEDs - 48" Gas Fire Pit - 6x Gas Tiki Torches - 12'x15' U-shaped BBQ Island (Firemagic Equipment)
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...ca-t28413.html

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    352

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    I have similar concerns about the decking.

    Decking was poured on 2/23/11. They used the same mixing technique and the same brand of color. I had a minor freak out on the color choice and we ended up with a 'Custom' mix of color. It is 1 lb of color per bag of concrete, the final product is 25% stronger than Sandstone (.75 lb) and 50% less than San Diego Buff (1.5 lb). Decking was stamped with large rubber pads in the Seamless Roman Pattern from Proline. They applied some wet release spray before they stamped each section. Relief Joints were laid out before the stamping process.

    I have the same concern about sealing the decking. I don't want it glossy and I don't want it slippery. I did find a product called Techniseal WLP that appears to enhance the color of concrete without making is glossy. I don't really have a good place to test the sealant on the decking.

    Photos show

    Decking - Dry - No Sun
    Decking - Wet - No sun
    Decking - Wet - Sun
    Decking wet and dry in the sun




    40x20 Free Form IG Pool (aprox 29,000 Gal, 140 Perimeter, depth 3'6"-7', Baja Shelf, 8x8 Free Form Spa) - Gunite Shell, Pebble Plaster Finish, Poured Concrete Coping - 3 Deep Heat Returns - Jandy LXi400 Gas Heater (400,000 Btu) - Jandy Variable Speed Pump JEP 2.0 - Jandy CL 600 Filter - HASA Liquidator - Jandy PDA 6 w/ Remote - 4x Jandy WaterColors Pool LEDs - 48" Gas Fire Pit - 6x Gas Tiki Torches - 12'x15' U-shaped BBQ Island (Firemagic Equipment)
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...ca-t28413.html

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    352

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    And while we are at it, let's take a look at the pavers too. I'm SO glad I have all these different materials to deal with At least they are all concrete

    Pavers are Orco Block brand. The style is called Antique Cobble and the color is Terra Verde. I really like the pavers. These blocks have a mixture of colors in every block (as opposed to a single color per block). The only minor flaw (so far) is that every edge has the little 'spacer' lines. One of the other brands of paver came with 1 side smooth (so you can get a nicer edge at the end of the pavers).

    They looks MUCH brighter when wet, but still nice when dry. The Angelus Pavers looked super washed out compared to the Orco. We have the section under the Alumawood sanded, the rest is still a work in progress.

    Photos:

    Pavers - Dry - No Sun
    Pavers - Wet - No Sun
    Pavers - Dry - Sun
    Pavers - Wet - Sun

    Pavers - Sanded - In the sun and under the patio





    40x20 Free Form IG Pool (aprox 29,000 Gal, 140 Perimeter, depth 3'6"-7', Baja Shelf, 8x8 Free Form Spa) - Gunite Shell, Pebble Plaster Finish, Poured Concrete Coping - 3 Deep Heat Returns - Jandy LXi400 Gas Heater (400,000 Btu) - Jandy Variable Speed Pump JEP 2.0 - Jandy CL 600 Filter - HASA Liquidator - Jandy PDA 6 w/ Remote - 4x Jandy WaterColors Pool LEDs - 48" Gas Fire Pit - 6x Gas Tiki Torches - 12'x15' U-shaped BBQ Island (Firemagic Equipment)
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...ca-t28413.html

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    32

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    @Nightmare

    Looking at that last picture it looks like your pavers are set on top of a concrete layer. I have been contemplating getting a paver deck instead of poured concrete and my pool builder is suggesting he pour concrete and set pavers on top of that. This is the first I have heard of that method as I thought you typically tamp down a base of crushed rock, then sand, then pavers. If yours in indeed on top of a poured concrete base, do you have any thoughts about how that type of install is going and why the builder chose a concrete pad base?
    3900 Gallon (18 x 8.5 x 5) Partially In Ground Fiberglass Pool -- 2" Schedule 40 PVC -- Hayward P4 Controller -- Goldline Aqua Rite Turbo Cell Salt Chlorinator -- Hayward 2 Speed Max Flo II 1 HP Pump -- Hayward SwimClear 225 sqft Cartridge Filter -- Hayward 250K BTU Natural Gas Heater -- Endless Pool Fastlane Swim Machine -- Cover Pools Manual Track & Reel Security Cover -- TF-100 Testkit

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    352

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    The guys were calling is a 'Bond Beam'. There is a 8 inch concrete border around the individual paver areas (I have 3 area with pavers in the back). The outside block is the onlything set in concrete. My understanding is that it keeps the rest of the blocks from shifting. The base under the pavers is in these layers:

    Water applied to the sand to activate the bonding agent
    Polymeric sand spred over the top of the pavers and compacted with the Vibrating Plate Compactor
    Pavers installed and leveled
    Fill sand added as necessary to level pavers
    Sand layer added, compacted with a Vibrating Plate Compactor >>This layer is just about rock hard when complete
    Mixture of smaller gravel and dirt/sand added, compacted with the Jumping Jack Tamper
    Good size gravel (3/4"+) added to the area
    My soils is mostly Decomposed Granite
    40x20 Free Form IG Pool (aprox 29,000 Gal, 140 Perimeter, depth 3'6"-7', Baja Shelf, 8x8 Free Form Spa) - Gunite Shell, Pebble Plaster Finish, Poured Concrete Coping - 3 Deep Heat Returns - Jandy LXi400 Gas Heater (400,000 Btu) - Jandy Variable Speed Pump JEP 2.0 - Jandy CL 600 Filter - HASA Liquidator - Jandy PDA 6 w/ Remote - 4x Jandy WaterColors Pool LEDs - 48" Gas Fire Pit - 6x Gas Tiki Torches - 12'x15' U-shaped BBQ Island (Firemagic Equipment)
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...ca-t28413.html

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    Whats the name of your pool builder. Looks like we had the same guy: )
    18,900 Stonescapes Tahoe Blue xtra black, 8 jet Spa, Pentair inteliflo VS , Pentair FNS 60 DE, Inteliclor40, Pentair 400,000 Mastertemp heater, 3 spillovers powered by a Pentair 1 HP whisperflo pump, The pool Cleaner, 2 Intellibright color changing lights and 400 sq ft. of Heliocol roof mounted solar.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    352

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    Post some pics. What did you/they do about the concrete?
    40x20 Free Form IG Pool (aprox 29,000 Gal, 140 Perimeter, depth 3'6"-7', Baja Shelf, 8x8 Free Form Spa) - Gunite Shell, Pebble Plaster Finish, Poured Concrete Coping - 3 Deep Heat Returns - Jandy LXi400 Gas Heater (400,000 Btu) - Jandy Variable Speed Pump JEP 2.0 - Jandy CL 600 Filter - HASA Liquidator - Jandy PDA 6 w/ Remote - 4x Jandy WaterColors Pool LEDs - 48" Gas Fire Pit - 6x Gas Tiki Torches - 12'x15' U-shaped BBQ Island (Firemagic Equipment)
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...ca-t28413.html

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    What you have is crazing and a shrinkage crack. There is a variety of causes for both with the most common being too much water in the mix. Some other causes of the crazing could be; over-finishing, finishing it to soon, and improper curing. If you are going to water cure a slab you need to keep it wet rather than letting it go through a lot of wet/dry cycles from periodic wetting especially when it is colored. The crazing is very shallow and has minimal effect on the structural integrity of the concrete. The shrinkage crack might have been avoided if the control joints were tooled earlier and deeper. Fibre in the mix can also minimize shrinkage cracks. Theres not much you can do for the crazing or shrinkage crack, but a light acid wash would help even out the color.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,690

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    Quote Originally Posted by skijunkie
    my pool builder is suggesting he pour concrete and set pavers on top of that.
    You dont really want that. On a refurbish where there is an exisitng slab, I've seen it done. But on a new install, thats definately not something I'd even consider.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    32

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    Thanks guys, I talked to the pool builder and he is fine doing the pavers with the gravel and sand instead of over concrete.
    3900 Gallon (18 x 8.5 x 5) Partially In Ground Fiberglass Pool -- 2" Schedule 40 PVC -- Hayward P4 Controller -- Goldline Aqua Rite Turbo Cell Salt Chlorinator -- Hayward 2 Speed Max Flo II 1 HP Pump -- Hayward SwimClear 225 sqft Cartridge Filter -- Hayward 250K BTU Natural Gas Heater -- Endless Pool Fastlane Swim Machine -- Cover Pools Manual Track & Reel Security Cover -- TF-100 Testkit

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    SoCal, Ca
    Posts
    80

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    Wondering if this coping issue was ever resolved. I had similar coping problems, problem areas were removed.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    The Woodlands, TX
    Posts
    167

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    Woah, back from the dead!
    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
    Hayward - TCell 15 SWG; TriStar VS Main Pump; SwimClear 425 Cartridge Filter; ProLogic 4 Automation, SuperII Water Feature Pump; Polaris 280 w/ Booster
    Link to my Build

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    SoCal, Ca
    Posts
    80

    Re: I need some advice from concrete experts

    Quote Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
    Woah, back from the dead!

    No Kidding! I was hoping the original poster was still around. His coping looked so bad, I hope the PB resolved the issue. My coping was on its way to looking that bad until they ripped it out. Sad to spend so much money on a new pool and be unhappy with it before it's finished. I was just curious if/how the concrete problem was remedied.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •