Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestions

[spillmar]

I just started to look into the gas fire bowls that will sit on the extremes of the rasied spa area of the pool. Holy Cow!!! These are really expensive. Somewhere I missed the warning label: "Add fire features at your own risk; may cause economic shock or fiscal death!"

I have looked at the stuff from Grand Effects and others and have come to the conclusion I mave to go the DYI route. I feel it may be more cost effective to buy the parts and pay someone more qualified to assemble. I found a concrete caster here in Riverside and now have a source for concrete bowls. These can be stained just like concrete floors to look like copper or bronze. The good part is that a 30" "stained" pedestal bowl runs about $80. For the fire pit that will sit in the middle of the ound patio behind the spa I found the bottom tier of a large fountain (bowl shaped) that can be stained and delivered to match the bowls. It would be delivered by crane and cost $400 stained. This would give me a 4 foot diameter firepit. Since it was a waterfall bottom it already has the hole to feed gas line and allow for draining. This may be a whole other thread - but I invite others to share their experience if they built their own fire pit.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Looking into firebowl/firepit parts, I found that the cheapest 18" burner ring insert with remote automated lighting by itself is $1400. For two bowls that's a whopping $2800 just for the ignition and gas delivery. For the firepit it goes up to $3400. Wowza.

By researching online and looking into the various components used in their manufacture, I found that Honeywell makes a Smart Valve with a built in gas valve control and pilot sequencer and flame sensor in one package. This can be bought for about $110 online and can be connected by wire to a remote control at the intellitouch panel. In this case, once can push a button on a remote control and turn the fire on or off. Pretty cool.

The pilot is by way of a hot surface ignitor which I understand works best in inclement weather and cost $40. A stainless steel ring burner runs about $70 for 18" and $340 for 48". A 24" burner pan which is also made of stainless steel at a specialty fire pit store runs $180. I thought to myself, "why can't I just use a large stainless pan made out of the same material for $35 and have my machine shop cut a couple holes?"

If I plan it out correctly (and don't blow myself up in the process) by doing it myself, and hiring someone to assemble and test, it appears I could safely build two 30" firebowls and one 48" fire pit for a total of $2000 including plumber costs versus $8000++. Sounds like I have me a Spring project.

Any thoughts....

 

[denisbaldwin]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Now you guys make me want to add fire to my back yard in more ways than just my smoker and grill.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Puts a fire in yer belly, huh :lol:

I wonder if this would do the trick.
http://customer.honeywell.com/honeywell ... V9501M8129

Below is a picture of one of the $1500 units from the web. I think it would not be too hard to assemble one myself for 1/3 the price.
Just add a burner ring, a pan and shove it inside a concrete bowl.... viola.

Whatcha think?

 

[Guest]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

You could do a metal bowl as well, like the ones they sell at Lowes for firewood. It is already made for fire, so that part is easy. They are cheap, and you may find something that looks nice. I made mine from one of those and we use it all the time without any issues or worries. I'll attach a quick pic, if it helps.

 

[Nightmare]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

*Insert Crocodile Dundee Accent*

'Ats not a burner...THIS is a burner

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

We so need a LIKE button.

Scott

 

[Guest]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

*Insert Crocodile Dundee Accent*

'Ats not a burner...THIS is a burner

NICE

 

[ray.carol]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Hey spillmar,

Did you end up using the honeywell V9501 for your fire features? I am thinking of doing the same thing. I would be interesting in knowing how it went. Any problems? Any lessons learned? Any advice you can give me?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[thadius65]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

I have about $850 in this setup:

DIY, manual ignition (match/lighter), stainless 24" @ 150,000 BTUs. This is an HPC setup I got from a local store, special order. Biggest single expense of the total was the 30" stainless steel pan. Rocks and labor were free. Very nice flame, very pleased with the exception of only able to get about 1/2-3/4 open valve before it whistles. But it is plenty high enough at that level. Lava rocks (large and small) cost me an extra $40 or so.

 

[carlscan26]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

When I rebuilt my fire pit last summer I learned the following things:

1. You only *need* the SS fire rings if you're going to use glass beads/rocks/whatever they're called. This is because the black iron rings will rust and will stain the glass. But it you're going to use lava rocks then the black iron rings are totally fine and they are MUCH less expensive. The rusting issue worried me until I removed the old ring in my pit which was approximately 12 years old and while it had some surface rust it was totally fine, no unexpected holes or cracks. I still chose to replace it since I had dug it up and wanted to set everything to a "new" starting state. But the point is that depending on the rock type you are using you can save some money there too.

2. With regards to the pan I also learned you only need these if you are using propane. Propane is heavier than air and will sink so you need the pan to trap it so it all burns and doesn't collect and eventually explode. Natural gas will rise so you don't have this problem. In fact with NG you should mount the ring with the holes facing down so the ring doesn't get water in it when it rains. The gas will still rise and burn properly. Both my old ring and the new one I put in were/are setup this way and worked/work just fine.

 

[ray.carol]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Thanks for the encouragement and especially the tips.

Does anyone have any experience the the Honeywell smart valve series? It seems to be an all in one solution (control module is built in) and I was thinking about using it as I have 2 fire bowls I want to turn on at the same time using 24 volt control.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

The smart valve will work however two solenoids (ASCO) one for pilot and one for the ring I think are essential for optimum safety and performance based on my experience. The smart valve does replace need for some components but is not as flexible as per say having a stand alone ignition controller that you can replace or modify if needed. If you look up Grand Effects manuals on line you can see some diagrams of such a system. It could also serve as a blue print. I built two burners using black pipe in a large H pattern and then drill pressed holes for gas. You can also insert or sweat in some copper risers from each hole 3/4 inch high and drill holes in then for aeration which will make flame higher and dance more.

Last week I did purchase 6x Grand Effects 8ft torches with burners included on CL. These were installed and taken out of the Hawaiian Tropic Casino. 2 of then are brand new. They cost I believe $5k+ each to fabricate. I am only keeping half and can sell the rest.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Hi ray-carol

Yes the model you mention worked for me. One key thing is that if you acquire solenoids be careful you choose the right voltage (24v vs 120v) for your application. I went with 24v for the bowls near the water of course.
Also make sure the solenoids are "always closed" and lastly put a swivel flare coupler on the burner to prevent making connection and disconnection easier.

If you are warty about working with gas - you can buy the parts and ask a plumber to assist with installation to make sure all works.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Thanks Carlscan One use for the pan is to protect the components below if you are going with an automatic ignition controller. It serves as a fire break if sorts. A little service door below also is a must in my opinion.

 

[carlscan26]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Thanks Carlscan One use for the pan is to protect the components below if you are going with an automatic ignition controller. It serves as a fire break if sorts. A little service door below also is a must in my opinion.

Ahh - good point. I went with a manual ignition (no need for remote start in my case) so I didn't look into pans further than the plumber and fireplace store owner whom I discussed my project with who both discussed propane etc. they both new I wasn't going with any starter modules so that may be why it wasn't discussed further either. I totally agreed about the access door also.

 

[ray.carol]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Excellent Info. Thanks!

 

[spillmar]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

If anyone wants pics if the Grand effects burners to see how remote industrial quality burners are built, just PM me. I will be installing the one I made plus two of these this weekend.

 

[res313]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

Absolutely, I would love to see them.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Kaboom!!! DIY Gas Firebowls/Firepits - Ideas, suggestio

I never did update here. At the end of the day I was able to purchase an inventory of some firebowl inserts made by Grand Effects; I have kept all of the other parts (solenoid valves, temp controllers, etc as spare parts). BTW I do have a few new left over I could sell at the right price. Just PM me to see if they are still available.