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Thread: Finally starting to fix winter damage

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Finally starting to fix winter damage

    We are finally starting to deal with all the damage we had over the winter. There were five trees down, two of them quite large, one of the smaller ones directly on the pool, a large one across the driveway, and another large one taking out all the wires to the house. Two telephone poles up the street were knocked down as well, so repairs took some time. We were blocked in and without power for 6 days, and without cable TV, Internet, or telephone for 12 days. Thank god we have a generator.

    I didn't know it when this picture was taken, and you can't tell from the photo, but one of the branches pierced the liner below the pool wall and the pool subsequently drained down well below the bottom of the shallow end. The liner was already fifteen years old, so no great loss there. It also appears that the liner track and metal coping band are completely rusted out and will need to be replaced as well.

    There was extensive damage throughout the DC metro region. It took until now for our tree service to finally have time to come by and do more than clear the driveway. They say everything will be cleaned up by the end of the week. I also have two companies coming out to bid on the liner replacement now that you can actually get to the pool without climbing over trees.
    [attachment=1:1q3x4t58]Pool-tree.jpg[/attachment:1q3x4t58]
    [attachment=0:1q3x4t58]coping.jpg[/attachment:1q3x4t58]
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Will your homeowners insurance cover some of the damage?
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Our insurance is paying for the damage to the house where one of the trees tore off some of the trim along the edge of the roof and part of a gutter, but they won't pay for tree removal or repair to the pool. The house is covered for replacement cost, but detached structures (which is what they call the pool) are covered for loss to amortized value. The liner and coping were ruled as due for replacement anyway due to routine wear and tear, so there was no "remaining value" to be covered by the insurance. Tree removal appears to only be covered if the tree is resting on the house.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Sorry to hear about the damage to your pool. I hope you can get it fixed before the summer hits.
    Mark Crook
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Man, thats 2 winters in a row you guys were slammed. I cant imagine no power for 6 days, even with a generator.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    That sucks, Jason!

    I'm glad you and yours made it through alright

    I know you already know this but... we're gonna want pics of the rehab

    Please remember that I'm more than willing to give you my input on the suggested repairs and methods used to rehab your pool.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    How do they fix coping like this? Isn't it the type that has some kind of lip that goes in concrete so that it's held in place properly?
    19.5k gallons in ground, P4 panel with turbocell SWG, 1hp Hayward superpump II, sand filter, Heater low nox 250k btu heater, solar cover on rocky roller

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Yes, the coping is embedded in the concrete of the deck. The two options I have gotten bids on so far are to either tear up the deck and replace it, or to encapsulate it (which means cover it up with a new plastic band and lots of epoxy to hold everything in place).
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    We got the first two bids in and they are very different. Company A wants to cut out the concrete all the way around the edge and replace the coping and track completely along with all of the plumbing and fixtures. Company B says that if you touch the concrete around the coping the whole pool will collapse (because it is so old, 40+ years). They want to encapsulate the coping and mount a new track right on top of it that brings the liner right up to the top of the deck.

    Company A is asking $15K, which includes putting in new steps, new decorative paver coping, replacing all of the plumbing and fixtures, new wall suction port, new liner with foam on the walls, and a paver walk to the pool shed.

    Company B is asking $6K, which is for encapsulating the existing coping, installing a new track and liner with foam on the walls, and adding a wall suction port.

    A is really what I want, something nice that will match the upgrades we have done to the house. However, the guy from company B really seemed to know his stuff and made a convincing argument that the walls are going to be old and rusted and are likely only being held in place by the concrete around the top. He thought that if we started to mess with the concrete or try to put in steps that the walls would collapse and we would end up putting in a new pool essentially from scratch. The company B guy also said that there might be up to another $1K to reinforce the walls if the rust is really bad.

    Our pool is at least 40 years old, put in sometime back in the 60s, black poly pipes and fixtures that had already seen better days 20 years ago. The liner is at least 15 years old and already had over a dozen patches when we moved in six years ago. There are signs that there was one renovation quite a while ago when they put in a pool slide and capped off a fitting in the shallow end that I can't identify, but I have no clear idea of when that was done.

    Does anyone know if the company B guy's concerns about removing the concrete are valid? Or is that just something he doesn't want to get involved in for his own reasons?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    It's hard to say if "B"s concerns are valid. What we don't have a way of knowing is whether A-braces were used and poured into a collar - if there's a collar holding the bottom of the panels and A-braces to hold the panels up, all would be fine to remove the deck.

    However, installing a new set of steps opens up another can of worms we did it 3X at the beginning of last season and the new steps didn't quite match up to the old panels we had to, with sledge hammers, grinders and reciprocating saws, make the old panels accept the new stairs (the difference was ~ 1/8 - 1/2" but 8" stairs in a 7' 11 7/8" gap just doesn't work ) Also, 2 of the pools were not 'square' which threw things off a bit - you can easily check yours by measuring the diagonals.

    What you might want to do is take a razor knife and cut the liner in a few places to see how the panels are holding up. Not that it's 100% but should give you a good idea of how well the panels have held up. Perhaps you could also dig under one of the panels, just past the break, to see if there is a concrete collar. Knowing a little bit more about the construction and condition of the panels ought help you make your decision.

    If you have any questions about what you find or the possible impact on rehabbing the pool - just give a shout
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

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    Puffin's Avatar
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    How's your repair going? Any updates? I hope your pool rehab goes smoothly for you.
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    I had the guy from company A back out and we tore off some of the liner and confirmed that the wall is set in concrete at the bottom and is in acceptable shape, ie not too much rust. He seemed confident, answered all of my questions, and has great references, so I am going with his bid. The contract is signed and now I am waiting for them to finish up the clients that are ahead of me in the queue. Just at the moment they are saying they will start next week.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Glad things are about to start and that you'll be getting the repair you preferred!

    I'm sure I don't need to tell you that we expect PICTURES :P
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Construction has finally started!

    They showed up early this afternoon and quickly got down to tearing out the old steel coping and about one foot of deck to make room for the new paver coping.

    I certainly wouldn't want the job of running that saw. He was just bathed in concrete dust all afternoon.
    [attachment=2:1sb3mdss]IMG_1301.jpg[/attachment:1sb3mdss]
    Here is a good view of what they were doing today. They got all the way around the pool and removed nearly all the debris in five hours.
    [attachment=1:1sb3mdss]IMG_1306.jpg[/attachment:1sb3mdss]
    This is the worst section of wall. It needs a little touchup, but it could have been so much worse. There is only one more panel that looked anything like this bad, the rest are in great shape from what I can see through the tears.
    [attachment=0:1sb3mdss]IMG_1307.jpg[/attachment:1sb3mdss]
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Jason, thanks for the pics

    I've played that deck cutting game often enough to fully appreciate what he's doing

    How are those ladder anchors? From the pic, it looks like they no longer will tighten down on the ladder, as long as they're there - this would be a good opportunity to replace them

    I'm sure you and your pool dudes know how to remove and treat the rust but, I'm wondering about that ~line that (looks to be) ~2" from the bottom. Are you in a high ground water area? That line is indicative of something, I just can't put my finger on it

    I hope the project continues apace and that you'll have a swimable pool soon!
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    There isn't anywhere on the panel you can put your finger through, so I figure it can't be that bad. They said they would grind of the worst of the rust, use rust neutralizing/encapsulating paint, put some sheet metal over the worse spots, and then there is a layer of foam going over that.

    We are on a fairly steep slope, and there tends to be water only on the up hill side. The worse of the rust is on the down hill side and I think it is from leaks over the years. There were something like 40 patches on the liner in a wide variety of places.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    40 patches in 40+ years

    I'm sure your new liner will not need a patch every year


    How 'bout the anchors?
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    I certainly wouldn't want the job of running that saw. He was just bathed in concrete dust all afternoon.
    [attachment=2:ztkz339t]IMG_1301.jpg[/attachment:ztkz339t]
    I just don't get contractors not using water hose on those saws. I've got the same exact saw and use a hose on mine which saves both the blade and has VERY LITTLE dust. It's been a necessary tool for me. I ran it for about 2 minutes only one time without a hose and never again???
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Day two - The stairs are basically in! They still need to finish the backfill.
    [attachment=0:1fvtkl61]IMG_1330.jpg[/attachment:1fvtkl61]
    They also did a lot of digging trenches to run the new plumbing and tearing out the old liner, which I don't have pictures of because they worked right up until sunset and I couldn't get a picture of dirt in the dark to come out right.
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    Re: Finally starting to fix winter damage

    Looks like a lot of work to be done before swim season . Do you have a finish date? Looking foward to the after pics .
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