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Thread: Water seems a little cloudy...

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    carlos31820's Avatar
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    Water seems a little cloudy...

    Ok, I'm a new pool owner. We've only used the pool twice. Yesterday, there were about 10 people in the pool for several hours. I noticed that the water was somewhat cloudy when everyone got out of the pool. Today, the water still seems a bit hazy in the deep end. I tested the water this evening and here are the numbers...

    FC: 1.5
    CC: 0
    pH: 7.8
    TA: 60
    CYA: 30

    Is it normal for the pool to look a little hazy after a heavy bather load? Before the pool party yesterday, the FC level was 3.5.
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Your FC is too low...4ppm should be your target with CYA at 60ppm. Bumping FC up before heavy bather load is always a good idea too
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    carlos31820's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Does the low FC make the water hazy-looking? Sorry for the newbie questions. I'm about to post a youtube video showing the water passing in front of the pool light...

    Edit... Here's the Youtube video. It's best to watch it in HD 720p quality to see in detail.

    [youtube:aslh4hku]8X9kaN31yvw[/youtube:aslh4hku]
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Hey Carlos...no such thing as a newbie question With low FC and CYA at 60, there is very little active chlorine available to oxidize bather waste (sweat, bodily fluids) coupled with typical outdoor contaminents, hence the hazing. Tried looking at the video, but it is marked private.

    Also, forgot to mention that it's not a bad idea to keep the filter running longer after a pool party.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    carlos31820's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Oops... ok, video should be available now.
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
    Jandy Stealth 1hp pump - Jandy CS-150 filter
    Jandy Legacy 250k heater - Jandy Ei SWCG
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    His CYA is 30, but the target is the same, 4ppm of FC.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
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    How to shock your pool

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    What Dman said... you are on the edge of an algae bloom. Get some clorine in there.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    carlos31820's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Ok, chlorine added... thank you for the help.
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
    Jandy Stealth 1hp pump - Jandy CS-150 filter
    Jandy Legacy 250k heater - Jandy Ei SWCG
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    You would also probably benefit from uping your CYA into the 60 range and targeting a FC number closer to 4 or 5. It should help your SWG keep up with the demand better.
    16K Gal Plaster | Compupool SWG | Intelliflow VF | TF-100

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    carlos31820's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Quote Originally Posted by lightingguy
    You would also probably benefit from uping your CYA into the 60 range and targeting a FC number closer to 4 or 5. It should help your SWG keep up with the demand better.
    I'm conflicted by this... the manual for my SWCG states the water chemistry should be kept as follows:

    FC: 1-3 ppm
    CC: None
    pH: 7.4-7.6
    CYA: 10-50 ppm
    TA: 80-120 ppm

    Why the discrepancy between the Jandy specs and the TFP recommendations?
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
    Jandy Stealth 1hp pump - Jandy CS-150 filter
    Jandy Legacy 250k heater - Jandy Ei SWCG
    Jandy Watercolors LED light
    Paramount Vanquish in-floor cleaner

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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Quote Originally Posted by carlos31820
    I'm conflicted by this... the manual for my SWCG states the water chemistry should be kept as follows:

    FC: 1-3 ppm
    CC: None
    pH: 7.4-7.6
    CYA: 10-50 ppm
    TA: 80-120 ppm

    Why the discrepancy between the Jandy specs and the TFP recommendations?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandy
    4.4 Chemistry You Need to Know
    1. Chlorine Stabilizer (cyanuric acid) is needed to maintain proper levels of chlorine. Most unstable chlorine is destroyed by the UV radiation from the sun within 2 hours. Chlorine stabilizer should be maintained between 50 - 75 PPM. See Table 2, page 20. http://www.jandy-downloads.com/pdfs/H05675-RevE.pdf
    The Jandy ei does say 10 to 50 ppm for cyanuric acid. Use 50 ppm.

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    carlos31820's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Well. I'm somewhat confused. Fearing an algae outbreak as suggested by some last night, I added all the chlorine I had in hand and set my SWCG to 100% and left the equipment running all night.

    Before I went to bed, FC was 9, CC was 0. This morning, FC is 10.5, CC is still zero but the water looks slightly improved than last night but about the same. To complicate things, a huge thunderstorm rolled through as I finished testing this morning now so I'm sure that's not going to help any. I also tested CH last night and it's only at 60 (vinyl pool). pH is 7.8.

    Why is the water cloudy yet my CC is at zero? CCs only go up for organic matter but not other things (oils, suntan lotion)?

    Btw - I'm using the TF-100 FAS DPD test. Will a ph of 7.8 contribute to the haziness? I guess it wouldn't hurt to bring it down to 7.4 or so.
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
    Jandy Stealth 1hp pump - Jandy CS-150 filter
    Jandy Legacy 250k heater - Jandy Ei SWCG
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Carlos,

    I suggest you leave the water chemistry alone for now and let the pump and filter clear your pool. It will take longer than you like but it will happen.

    Secondly, you should perform an Overnight FC loss test to see if you are still consuming excessive chlorine. Read how in Pool School.

    Cloudy water after a large bather load is a very common issue and it will almost surely work itself out if you keep your pump running 24/7. The best lesson to take from this is to anticipate the large bather load and up you FC prior to that.

    A pH of 7.8 is okay and that is not the reason for your cloudiness. Thunderstorms, unless you get runoff INTO the pool, do not change things that much and generally, you can disregard them.

    You must take ALL your water parameters into account to get a "snapshot" of your water's condition. When I look at the numbers you have posted, I see a pool within guidelines that simply suffered from an extra bather load. Allow 24/7 filtration to correct it for you.

    All the advice above assumes you pass the overnight FC loss test.......if you don't then you'll need to shock
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Carlos, I too am suprised you did not get a CC reading especially on March 14th. You should have gotten at least some pink color in the CC test. Just to be on the safe side would you step through the process of how you test for CC and also state how old you TF-100 kit is.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
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    How to shock your pool

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    carlos31820's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Quote Originally Posted by benavidescj
    Carlos, I too am suprised you did not get a CC reading especially on March 14th. You should have gotten at least some pink color in the CC test. Just to be on the safe side would you step through the process of how you test for CC and also state how old you TF-100 kit is.
    TF-100 kit is fairly new. Ordered it last January.

    I'm testing for CC following the TF-100 instructions (using the Speedstir as well). 10ml of water, add scoop of DPD powder, stir.. then add the reagent (R871? - cant remember, I'm at work) one drop at a time counting the drops... divide # of drops by two to get my FC. For CC check, add five drops of reagent (R003? - again not sure of the number)... remix... if it turns pink, there's CC so add R871 again to see how much CC there is... however, when I add the last reagent the solution remains perfectly clear which should indicate no CC.
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
    Jandy Stealth 1hp pump - Jandy CS-150 filter
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    carlos31820's Avatar
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Carlos,

    I suggest you leave the water chemistry alone for now and let the pump and filter clear your pool. It will take longer than you like but it will happen.

    Secondly, you should perform an Overnight FC loss test to see if you are still consuming excessive chlorine. Read how in Pool School.

    Cloudy water after a large bather load is a very common issue and it will almost surely work itself out if you keep your pump running 24/7. The best lesson to take from this is to anticipate the large bather load and up you FC prior to that.

    A pH of 7.8 is okay and that is not the reason for your cloudiness. Thunderstorms, unless you get runoff INTO the pool, do not change things that much and generally, you can disregard them.

    You must take ALL your water parameters into account to get a "snapshot" of your water's condition. When I look at the numbers you have posted, I see a pool within guidelines that simply suffered from an extra bather load. Allow 24/7 filtration to correct it for you.

    All the advice above assumes you pass the overnight FC loss test.......if you don't then you'll need to shock
    I think you may be right about the bather load, because the water was very cloudy when the pool party was over. It cleared up some but I guess it used up all the FC in the process before I could clear it all the way.

    It looked better this morning. I've read about doing the overnight FC loss test and will try it tonight if it still looks hazy. Thank you for all the help. You guys are great.

    I have learned my first of many lessons, I'm sure. Increase FC before a heavy bather load.
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
    Jandy Stealth 1hp pump - Jandy CS-150 filter
    Jandy Legacy 250k heater - Jandy Ei SWCG
    Jandy Watercolors LED light
    Paramount Vanquish in-floor cleaner

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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    If people had lots of suntan lotion or did not rinse off before entering the pool, then such lotion and skin oils can make a pool cloudy. Having the FC be too low didn't help since it wasn't high enough to oxidize some of this bather load fast enough and may also have been low enough to let algae start to develop (though that would take a little time -- if the water was cloudy immediately after the bather load, then that's from the bather load itself).

    Chlorine oxidation and filtration will clear the pool though it can take some time. People sometimes use clarifiers to speed up the process, but obviously that's a cost vs. time tradeoff and normally is not necessary.

    And yes, you are right that CC measures chemicals that have combined with chlorine, but won't measure chemicals that don't form combined chlorine. Suntan lotion has different chemicals, but the most visible ones in the pool are not particularly soluble and don't react much with chlorine. They generally get filtered out. My wife swims in the pool every day (well, she will once our swim season starts) and there is always a film of suntan lotion right after she is in the water and eventually clears with filtration. When I clean my oversized cartridge filter once a year, it is mostly filled with what appears to be suntan lotion -- same basic flesh-tone color and consistency. It's obviously a chemical that does not break down very much from chlorine.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Thank you for the detailed response Chem geek. Im really thinking its a bather load issue because I had been checking FC daily and it had been hovering between 4-5 ppm until the day we swam when it was around 3.5 ppm.
    BTW - The bather load consisted of six small kids using sun screen and four adults. Im sure the small kids pee in the water as I don't remember any kids taking a bathroom break and were in the pool over 3 hours.

    My mistake was not increasing FC right before or after the pool party which was Sunday. It was last night - Monday - that I noticed the water was fully filtered as I expected.

    I'll check the water after work and will do the overnight fc loss test just in case. Im very thankful for all the help found here. Im learning a lot.
    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
    Jandy Stealth 1hp pump - Jandy CS-150 filter
    Jandy Legacy 250k heater - Jandy Ei SWCG
    Jandy Watercolors LED light
    Paramount Vanquish in-floor cleaner

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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Carlos,

    I'm sure the directions include this but, as a reminder, you must turn the SWG off when performing this test.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Water seems a little cloudy...

    Went home for lunch. FC is still holding at 10ppm, CC at zero. Water looks MUCH improved.

    Here is a cell phone photo looking at the drain in the deep end (8 feet).

    16x36 Vinyl Pool - 22.5K gallons.
    Jandy Stealth 1hp pump - Jandy CS-150 filter
    Jandy Legacy 250k heater - Jandy Ei SWCG
    Jandy Watercolors LED light
    Paramount Vanquish in-floor cleaner

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