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Thread: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

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    AClogston's Avatar
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    Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    I recently took over operation of the pools at our hotel, and only recently discovered that Trichlor adds large amounts of CYA. The operator before me never tested for it and I wasn't even aware we had to until now. So I want to switch to liquid chlorine somehow, but I don't really want to add it manually and risk inconsistency and have highs and lows, inviting algae.

    We have a gunite pool and a spa, both outdoors and in direct sunlight all day. The pool is 35,000 gals and the spa about 1,200. We normally mainted a FC level of 3ppm in both and would generally go through about 7-8 3" trichlor tabs every 5-7 days in the pool and 3-4 tabs in the spa in the same time frame.

    I know for a raise of 3 ppm in the pool I'd need about 2 gallons of 6% bleach so I was thinking that this Stenner pump and tank system would be adequate - http://www.inyopools.com/Products/13100006039299.htm

    There's no way they'll let me spend the money on a controller, so would we be all set with just that setup? I also looked into the Chemilizer, but wasn't sure how reliable that was. Any experience with those? Another option was the Liquidator. Is that viable for a pool of this size? Would the Liquidator work well in the spa?

    Any guidance appreciated!
    -Alex
    Outdoor Chlorine Pool/Spa (~100' from pump room):(35,000gal IG, plaster, 2 Triton TR-140 sand filters, 2 2HP pumps),(1,200gal IG, plaster, Triton TR-140, 2.5HP pump [circ.], 2 2HP pumps [jets])
    Indoor Bromine Pool/Spa:(24,000gal, plaster, Triton TR-100, 1.5HP SVRS-equipped pump),(3,200gal w/ 3 waterfalls, plaster, Sta-Rite System 3 cartridge filter, 3HP pump [circ.], 3HP pump [jets])

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    The Stenner systems are a good choice. They have some maintenance requirements, but nothing complicated. Many commercial pools use a Stenner pump head directly with a 55 gallon barrel of chlorine, and skip the tank. That is much simpler if you are getting 55 gallon barrels delivered anyway. There is a cap with feed tube assembly available that fits on the common chlorine barrel threads.

    There have been mixed reviews of the Liquidator. It works great for some people, requires too much cleaning according to others. Even the large tank version isn't all that large.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    We have 5 RV parks on the LQ, all with good results. One of them has the smaller unit (4 gallon) on the spa, and they are happy with that as well. If they keep the pH in range (per HASA) they do not seem to have any build up or plugging. They are all using the 3/8" upgrade.

    I run a LQ on my pool, and Sal uses a RolaChem feeder. The Stenner is a good system as well, as mentioned. My only "beef" with the pumps is that they do not separate the salt like the LQ, so if you are using a lot of chlorine your salt level tends to rise pretty quickly.

    No matter which way you go, anything is better than what was being used!

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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    If the 3" Trichlor tabs were 8 ounces (some are 6 or 7), then your chlorine demand was around 1.5 to 2.5 ppm FC per day which is pretty typical for a low bather-load pool (similar to a typical residential pool) where most of that demand is loss from sunlight. However, it seems unlikely you were using 3" Trichlor tabs in the spa at 3-4 every 5-7 days as that would be 19.6 to 38.0 ppm FC per day which represents 9 to 19 person-hours of soaking per day. I suppose that's possible, but would mean there were 1-2 people in a hot (104ºF) spa at all times during the day.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    AClogston's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    Thanks again for the replies.

    One thing I forgot to mention about the pools is that the pumps run on them 24/7, don't know if that makes a difference with any of the options.

    Jason, is a compatible cap with feed tube for the 55gal drums an option from Stenner or is that something that's readily available at a lot of places?

    Where can one order a Liquidator? I can only find some outdated website that has no ordering info. Is the 3/8" upgrade a DIY job or is it an ordering option?

    I take it the Chemilizer should be skipped?

    Chem geek, I thought the amounts were a little disproportionate as well, but I'd say 1-2 people (at least) at all times sounds about right.
    -Alex
    Outdoor Chlorine Pool/Spa (~100' from pump room):(35,000gal IG, plaster, 2 Triton TR-140 sand filters, 2 2HP pumps),(1,200gal IG, plaster, Triton TR-140, 2.5HP pump [circ.], 2 2HP pumps [jets])
    Indoor Bromine Pool/Spa:(24,000gal, plaster, Triton TR-100, 1.5HP SVRS-equipped pump),(3,200gal w/ 3 waterfalls, plaster, Sta-Rite System 3 cartridge filter, 3HP pump [circ.], 3HP pump [jets])

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    The best place to get the Liquidator is linked in Bruce's sig. But, as much as I love mine, I wouldn't recommend one for a 35,000 gal pool, especially a commercial pool. An 8 gallon is the largest they make and with a pool that size you'd be filling it up often.

    I'd recommend the Stenner adjustable output pump with the bung adaptor and just set it on the drum. You'll still have to test and check it according to the recommended schedule but I think it'd make life a lot simpler. If you'll let us know what the strength of the hypo you get is we can help figure out which pump you need to get. You normally want to run the pump in the middle of the feed range so you have some adjustment both ways.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    I agree with Bama that your pool is most likely too large for a LQ. The largest (commercial) pool we have one on is about 25,000 gallons. Unless you set the flow very low, it would probably need refilling every couple of days or so.

    Sounds like a pump would be the best for your application. Keep everything clean and it should do what you want it to do well.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    Oh yeah, I've studied the Chemilizer and they're perfect for a place where there's no access to electricity (i.e. internal combustion engine or wind driven pump). If you decide to try one let us know how it works out.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    AClogston's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    Do you think the 8 gal Liquidator (thanks for the link to it) would work well with the 1,200 gal hot tub? I think I'd have a hard time convincing my higher-ups to buy 2 pump setups. They don't want to put money into the pools, but they're the first to complain when there's an issue.

    If I were to switch to bleach I'd try to get 10-12% (never priced it by the drum), but I'm not sure if my demand would be high enough to order a 55 gal drum. I wouldn't want it to go bad before I used it. I was thinking about 30 gal. Would the Stenner setup I initially posted be suitable for this? Would it still be suitable for 6% if that was what I was forced to buy?

    Again, I appreciate all your help!
    -Alex
    Outdoor Chlorine Pool/Spa (~100' from pump room):(35,000gal IG, plaster, 2 Triton TR-140 sand filters, 2 2HP pumps),(1,200gal IG, plaster, Triton TR-140, 2.5HP pump [circ.], 2 2HP pumps [jets])
    Indoor Bromine Pool/Spa:(24,000gal, plaster, Triton TR-100, 1.5HP SVRS-equipped pump),(3,200gal w/ 3 waterfalls, plaster, Sta-Rite System 3 cartridge filter, 3HP pump [circ.], 3HP pump [jets])

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    If the Spa is completely separate from the pool then the LQ should work great. In fact you'll probably have to run it real low.
    I strongly recommend that if you go with the LQ for the tub that you convince the vendor (ahem, Bruce & Sal) to include a Hayward Needle valve in the sale. It may cost a few dollars more but it makes adjusting the flow so much easier.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    include a Hayward Needle valve in the sale.
    Just what I needed today, Dave, was to research something else

    OK, I am off to the supply house to get one of these and put it on my LQ! When (not if!) it works, you get all the credit

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    You're welcome Bruce!

    I'm using the 1/4" on my LQ and love it. I marked the handle and count the turns so I can open or close it and then adjust it back to the same place every time. Like you, I don't have the flow meter on mine anymore.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    Something like this vapor-shield will work on several different drum sizes.

    If you want to pour into a fixed tank, then the Stenner tanks are good. If the ventilation is poor, you might want a fancier tank with double wall construction and a better vapor barrier, but the Stenner tanks are a great starting point for most situations.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    AClogston's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    Thanks again everyone. I'm going to meet with the Ecolab rep at the hotel, they supply the bleach to the laundry department and provide the pumps for all the chemicals. I'll see if they have any solutions, I know they have a pool and spa division. If not I think I'll see if I can order a Stenner pump for the pool and a Liquidator for the spa.

    Just a couple other quick questions (it never ends, I apologize). I hate to sound like a newbie, but are the Stenner pumps designed to run 24/7?

    Lastly, would the 8 gallon Liquidator be overkill for the spa (1,200 gallons) or would the 4 gallon be better suited? And if so, are the 4 gallon models even available still?
    -Alex
    Outdoor Chlorine Pool/Spa (~100' from pump room):(35,000gal IG, plaster, 2 Triton TR-140 sand filters, 2 2HP pumps),(1,200gal IG, plaster, Triton TR-140, 2.5HP pump [circ.], 2 2HP pumps [jets])
    Indoor Bromine Pool/Spa:(24,000gal, plaster, Triton TR-100, 1.5HP SVRS-equipped pump),(3,200gal w/ 3 waterfalls, plaster, Sta-Rite System 3 cartridge filter, 3HP pump [circ.], 3HP pump [jets])

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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    We put the 4 gallon units on spas, but they deliver the same dosage as the larger units. Just longer time between fills in the 8 gallon, but sometimes space is an issue (they are the same width but shorter).

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    I think the Ecolab guy is a good resource. They may even have a solution like a dosing pump.

    The Stenner pumps are designed to run continuously. They're used in a lot of industrial facilities.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    I travel extensively, and do consulting work for many large hotel chains.

    EcoLab is by far, consistently the worst company as far as the installations, and implementations of pool chemical controls. I don't know how many heaters, and pool finishes that they have destroyed by their improper implementation of their equipment. I often get called in to play referee between builders/service companies, the owners, and Ecolab.


    Ecolab doesn't like to let their clients use Peri Pumps for their chlorine, instead they really push their cal-hypo tabs systems.

    They use mecomatic dolphin peri pumps, which I am not a big fan of.

    Stenner by far makes the best peri pump for the money.
    20X40 30,000 gallon gunite pool

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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    For the record, I can't remember any good reports regarding EcoLab either. Most have nothing good to say about them. Sad.

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    AClogston's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    Thanks a lot for the info, Racket. I know their installation of the laundry chemical dispensers sure left a lot to be desired.

    Do they not allow the end-user to install it at all? Will they even sell their chemicals without you using their equipment? Is their price on chlorine any better or worse than average?

    I knew any easy solution was too good to be true
    -Alex
    Outdoor Chlorine Pool/Spa (~100' from pump room):(35,000gal IG, plaster, 2 Triton TR-140 sand filters, 2 2HP pumps),(1,200gal IG, plaster, Triton TR-140, 2.5HP pump [circ.], 2 2HP pumps [jets])
    Indoor Bromine Pool/Spa:(24,000gal, plaster, Triton TR-100, 1.5HP SVRS-equipped pump),(3,200gal w/ 3 waterfalls, plaster, Sta-Rite System 3 cartridge filter, 3HP pump [circ.], 3HP pump [jets])

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    Re: Choosing the right liquid feeder(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by AClogston
    Thanks a lot for the info, Racket. I know their installation of the laundry chemical dispensers sure left a lot to be desired.

    Do they not allow the end-user to install it at all? Will they even sell their chemicals without you using their equipment? Is their price on chlorine any better or worse than average?

    I knew any easy solution was too good to be true
    Their chemical prices can easily be beat. My understanding is that they lease the equipment, and charge a monthly amount for chemicals. So if you work for a company that does baseline budgeting (foolish IMO), it might be the only way to go.

    The solution is easy. Get a good control system installed by a qualified company.

    I prefer Becsys, Siemens, or accutrol.
    20X40 30,000 gallon gunite pool

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