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Thread: California Title 20 Question

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    phalcon51's Avatar
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    California Title 20 Question

    I just became aware of this law which apparently went into effect in Jan. of 2008 requiring any replacement filter pumps over 1 hp in Calif. to be a multi or variable speed pump. We had our pool replastered, the deck redone, new plumbing and a new filter pump installed in September 2010. The company that did the work is fairly large and well known in So. Calif. No mention was made to us of this law and they sold us a single speed 1.5 hp Pentair SuperFlow pump installed for $1070. I was a complete newbie and not even aware of multi or variable speed pumps at the time (they made no mention or them), and didn't know about this site. I'm now in the process of replacing the single speed pump with a Hayward EcoStar variable speed pump. Anyone know if they were remiss in not informing me about the law or giving me the choice of a multi or variable speed pump?

    Thanks for your input.

    Gary
    26,200 gal. 35' x 16' Plaster IGP (50 yrs. old), Hayward 48 sq. ft. DE filter, Hayward EcoStar VS pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWCG, The Pool Cleaner 4X suction, Pool Skim and Pool Devil skimmers. Re-plastered Sept. 2010.

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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    You could turn them in but I doubt anything will happen.

    The pump was $1070?

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    phalcon51's Avatar
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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    Yeah, $1070 is what they wrote on the proposal, which included installation. They pushed it as being a top of the line pump, and I believed them. I think they saw me coming. I've since seen it for as little as $285 on Amazon. I'm not interested in turning them in, but I'm wondering if I have some leverage to have them reimburse me for part or all of the pump they sold me being as it wasn't within the scope of the current law. (I know, shame on me for not doing my homework to begin with)

    Gary
    26,200 gal. 35' x 16' Plaster IGP (50 yrs. old), Hayward 48 sq. ft. DE filter, Hayward EcoStar VS pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWCG, The Pool Cleaner 4X suction, Pool Skim and Pool Devil skimmers. Re-plastered Sept. 2010.

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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    The only possible leverage you might have is by turning them in. Even then, nothing is going to happen. If you steal $800 with a gun you go to jail, if you use a piece of paper and insider knowledge - well, you can steal anything you want.

    They dont seem like the kind of people who will reimburse you because you discovered they ripped you off and now they feel ashamed about it. You know? They do work without permits and mark up equipment by 200%.

    Ultimately $800 is not gonna be worth the headache and emotional capitol invested (just my point of view).

    Where in So Cal?
    16K Gal Plaster | Compupool SWG | Intelliflow VF | TF-100

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    Did you have an inspection yet or are you building the pool without permits? The inspector should have called it.

    Also, read this article.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    phalcon51's Avatar
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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    We're in the San Gabriel Valey area, specifically Momrovia. The pool co. is in Pomona.

    They said they would pull all the permits and I assumed they got an inspection, but most of the work was done while we were both at work, so I don't know for sure. Do inspectors require the homeowner to be present, or just the contractor? This is the first time we've worked with a contractor and I knew nothing about the process. If it was done without permits where does that leave me?

    Btw, I got a call this morning from the sales guy asking if they could have a poetntial client call me for a reference. Maybe I can use that to my advantage.

    Gary
    26,200 gal. 35' x 16' Plaster IGP (50 yrs. old), Hayward 48 sq. ft. DE filter, Hayward EcoStar VS pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWCG, The Pool Cleaner 4X suction, Pool Skim and Pool Devil skimmers. Re-plastered Sept. 2010.

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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    I would ask to see the permits and they should actually be on site at all times. They normally have stages for sign off and at a minimum; plumbing/rebar, electrical, gas, .., final. So you should be able to tell what has been signed off and what still needs to be signed off. The home owner doesn't need to be around for the inspection but it is a good idea. Sometimes the inspectors will point things out that technically pass but would have been better done another way.

    If the pool was built without permits, the city has the authority to make you remove it but I am not sure they would actually do that.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985

    If the pool was built without permits, the city has the authority to make you remove it but I am not sure they would actually do that.
    Just ot of curiosity, does california or any jurisdiction there require permits for a replaster or deck re-do? We wouldnt. Just on a new build.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    I think it would probably depend on the city. Some don't care much and some require permits for almost everything. I can't cut down a large tree without a permit. The best thing to do is contact the building department in the city and ask.

    Some things you can get away without a permit even if they are required but if you go to sell the house and during an inspection it is obvious that new work has been done without permits, you might run into problems.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    This wasn't a new pool build, just a replaster, new paver deck to replace concrete, new PVC plumbing to replace the old copper pipe and the pump if that makes a difference re: the permits and inspections.
    26,200 gal. 35' x 16' Plaster IGP (50 yrs. old), Hayward 48 sq. ft. DE filter, Hayward EcoStar VS pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWCG, The Pool Cleaner 4X suction, Pool Skim and Pool Devil skimmers. Re-plastered Sept. 2010.

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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    If nothing else - since the new pump was hard wired into a breaker panel it required a permit (and those 2 ganged together breakers wouldn't pass.)

    Still - I dont think "reporting" them is going to be a very satisfying experience. Either nothing happens or you open up some kind of problem with your electrical system which looks to be a bit old and spliced together from your other post.

    If they really are looking for a reference I would just try to use that to open up the conversation. They DID install an improper pump and they DID overcharge for it. Perhaps some accommodation can be made.
    16K Gal Plaster | Compupool SWG | Intelliflow VF | TF-100

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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    I have lived full time in CA since '06 and pay close attention to what his going on at the local and state level regarding laws....and I have never heard about the new laws regarding filter pumps. I have a home warranty and have had two pumps replaced in the past three years and both were single speed models. Seems the warranty company uses rebuilt pumps because they are cheaper. They don't last ....but the warranty company does not seem to care. Costs me about $400 a year for the home warranty and it sure seems like I get my money back almost every year in pool filter pumps alone....not to mention AC breakdowns, plumbing problems, and a few other things every year too.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: California Title 20 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockman59
    it sure seems like I get my money back almost every year in pool filter pumps alone....not to mention AC breakdowns, plumbing problems, and a few other things every year too.
    I can't tell if you are joking or not.

    We used to have a home warranty and they came out three times a year to fix the AC. Since we got rid of the warranty and had the AC fixed by someone who actually knew what they were doing it has lasted six years without any further problems. I far prefer having an AC that actually works rather then going a day or two without the AC three times each summer and then getting it fixed for "free".
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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