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Thread: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

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    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Marlborough, Massachusetts
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    Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    Hi Guys,
    This is my very first post as well as my very first pool. I am installing the pool in concert with a two story garage project in my back yard. I am a contractor and handling the construction of the garage. I have subbed out the site prep to a guy I regularly work with. I have no illusions that either of us are proficient in pool installations and will be subbing that out to a qualified installer.
    The pool is a Creation 15x26x54” AG 10,300 gallons.
    My first round of questions pertains to the mechanics of the pool. I bought the pool itself at the end of the season to take advantage of sales. I did not by any support equipment. I would like to ask you for your opinions on filter and pump types, sizes and brands. I have no knowledge or attraction to any one brand over another. I would prefer simple to complicated. I would prefer overall cost effectiveness to cheap now and pay later. I would like to use the BBB method of pool care. I work many many hours and this will be another thing that I must set time aside to do but will probably do so with some sense of enjoyment. So that is question number one; what is my best bet for pump, filter, type of filter… to operate my pool.
    Question # 2 pertains to me plan on situating the pool as semi-submerged. I am looking for feedback and suggestions drawn on past experiences. I am doing major construction in my yard installing a 28x28’ two story garage. I poured my foundation at 36x28 and will be leaving the rear 8’ of concrete slab exposed to the weather. At the end of that 8’ slab is a ten foot shear wall that will be buried below grade roughly up to the depth of my pool meaning that roughly 5’ of the wall is blow grade with 5’ above grade and my pool will belly up to this wall. Belly up as close as possible so that one could step off of the concrete slab right into the pool. I will tie a ledger board into the top of the wall and install a small extension probably made of composite decking. Immediately below is a side view of my plan:
    [attachment=1:3sudmrk8]Pool Side View Jpeg.JPG[/attachment:3sudmrk8]
    The concrete slab that is exposed is 8’x28’ and the pool is 26’ long. I plan to build a retaining wall enclosing approximately one half of the pool. My yard’s grade naturally falls off so the bottom half of the pool will be exposed and the top half you would be able to step into as if a built in pool. Atop the retaining wall will be a paver patio as depicted below.
    [attachment=0:3sudmrk8]Pool top view Jpeg.JPG[/attachment:3sudmrk8]
    Any thoughts, suggestions of guffaws will be welcomed. Thank you all.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Fishyspice
    Marlborough,MA
    10,354 Gallon Creation
    AG
    Pentair 1/2HP Superflo,
    Pentair CC200 Cartridge

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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    1) 10 feet is an awfully high wall. How are you tying the 10' sheer wall into the side of the hill? Theres an awful lot of weight behind that wall, not to mention gravity trying to pull it down.

    2) If the pool settles, your deck wont be even with the edge of the pool anymore.

    3) Pavers laid over concrete will probalby heave. Are you going to just glue them down?
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    Silver Spring, MD
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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    Welcome to TFP!

    You definitely want a fairly small two speed pump, perhaps a 1 HP, or 3/4 HP if you can find a two speed 3/4 HP (they are rare). Smaller pumps are just fine as long as you don't have any water features and both smaller pump and the two speed feature can save you a lot of money on electric costs in the long run.

    Get a fiter that is much larger than the pool stores will try to sell you. The filter is the one place where bigger really is better, less frequent cleaning and more efficient water flow.

    Look at the major brands: Hayward and Pentair are the leaders, and avoid the bottom of the line models. That will get you into the range of the most reliable ones available and if there are any problems down the road it will be easier to get parts and service.

    As bk406 was saying, a large retaining wall just below a pool is risky. You may need to get a soil engineer to design it for you. Pools weigh a great deal and that can make otherwise solid ground slide down a hill like a surfboard on a wave.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion

    As bk406 was saying, a large retaining wall just below a pool is risky. .
    Maybe i'm confused with the drawing. It looks like the retaining wall is on the front side of the pool next to the house?

    Edit: Now that I look at it again, the overhead drawing appears as if there is another wall on the backside of the pool as well.

    The wall on the backside of the pool is the concern for me. It can be done but it has to be done in the correct way. How high will this back wall be and what are you planning to build it out of?
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Marlborough, Massachusetts
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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    Thank you both for responding. Thanks for the pump and filter info.

    I apologize for the walls and drawings being less than easy to understand. I build better than I draw. I am attaching a picture to hopefully help me express what I am trying to say. The ten foot wall is at the end of a 36’ foundation holding up a two story garage. 5 of the ten feet will be below grade. This wall has been engineered by a pro. It is pinned to the slab at the top with rebar, pinned all the way down and sitting on top of a huge footer.
    [attachment=2eaxgjny]' wall side view.JPG[/attachmenteaxgjny]
    You can also see in the attached photo the red arrow and marking 10’ down. I don’t think that one is going anywhere. When completed, you will be able to step off the slab essentially into the pool. I will traverse the small area required for the gussets, channels and steel uprights with decking.
    [attachment=0eaxgjny]back wall depth.JPG resized.JPG[/attachmenteaxgjny]
    The retaining wall is probably more of concern. That is the horseshoe shaped wall depicted as orange in the drawing. Any thoughts on that will be appreciated.
    Thanks for everything.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Fishyspice
    Marlborough,MA
    10,354 Gallon Creation
    AG
    Pentair 1/2HP Superflo,
    Pentair CC200 Cartridge

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Central Massachusetts
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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    Ok, i understand it now. That back wall isnt going anywhere.

    Now for the wall on the other side. That one is a little more difficult to build, but not too much. It looks like the pool will sit on a level pad, but the backside of the pad will need a wall to hold up the pad. A concrete wall would be hard since there's nothing there to pin it to. If you went with masonery work like stone, it would have to be pretty thick.

    Best type of wall there is a pinned, stacked sytem. You could do a machine stacked wall like Techo. Celtik works pretty well but it's expensive. The most economical wall is Versa Lok. You can build a curved wall with it and it looks great. How tall does it need to be?
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    In the Industry

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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    One of the biggest problems that I see in new pools is an under sized filter. Go larger than what the specs may recommend. I personally prefer Pentair. I also highly recommend the Pentair Challenger pump over other brands/models. Yes, you'll pay more - but at some point you get what you pay for. The Challenger has proven to be the most durable and easiest to work on. There are several factors that may play into what type of filter (sand, DE, cartridge). Sand will always require the least amount of maintenance, but certain areas and environmental conditions may have restrictions. In regards to automatic pool cleaners - the Polaris 280 is always our number one choice.

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Dec 2010
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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    Is the retaining wall to hold up the side of the pad or to hold back dirt from that side? From your first post it seems like it's to hold back the grade and you'd have a patio level with the garage slab arond the side of the pool right?
    15,600 Gallon, 16' x 32' In-Ground Vinyl Pool
    Pentair VS 3050 pump, Quad DE 60 filter and SunTouch controller
    8 gallon Liquidator, Aquatherm EcoSun Solar Panels, 2 wheel ThePoolCleaner

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    Thanks Slade for the pump info.
    Carlscan26,
    Yes the retaining wall is to hold back the grade on top of which I hope to continue the patio. I realize that it is a tad unorthodox but many of the things we have done are unorthodox.
    Fishyspice
    Marlborough,MA
    10,354 Gallon Creation
    AG
    Pentair 1/2HP Superflo,
    Pentair CC200 Cartridge

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Massachusetts
    Posts
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    Re: Picking out components and looking for feedback.

    I think i'm still confused on that wall you have outlined in orange in your figure. How are you going to put a patio level with the pool on the back side? The wall you have outlined in orange looks to be butted up to the edge of the pool but not quite touching it? Normally a wall holding back a grade liike that would not be a reverse horse shoe. Thats going to be hard to keep it from moving. If that wall get pushed even a little its going to fall right over into the side of the pool wall. What are you going to do with the gap between the pool and the wall?
    Do you have a plan or an engineer look at this, or at least an architect?
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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