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Thread: layin it all out there...first test

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    layin it all out there...first test

    Newbie here, been lurkin' and learnin' but still gonna need your invaluable input these next months:-New pool completed and filled end of Dec- IG Gunite 20,000 gallon with SWG-Here's my test with the TF-100 test kit
    FC 5.5
    CC 0
    TC 5.5
    PH 8.2
    TA 150
    CH 290
    CYA 30
    Salt 3800
    with water temp a nice 61 degrees in sunny South Mississippi today
    Been adding MA, seems like daily for the last several weeks....any suggestions. Just added my first stabilizer last week and the CYA is finally registering. Thanks for any input!
    20,000 Freeform IG Gunite,Gray Plaster,Tanning Ledge w 2 Bubblers, 8f tRaised Spa with 8 jets,Fiber Optic-3 ft Sheer Decent, 1 ft Sheer Decent, Intellibrites, 2 HP Jandy Stealth Pump, 1 HP Jandy pump, 340 Jandy Cartridge Filter, Jandy Aquapure Salt System, 2-1HP Blowers....and promised but not yet delivered Rheem 105 BTU Heat Pump/Chiller

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    Welcome to TFP!

    The simple answer is: you need to add more acid more frequently, as much and as often as it takes to keep the PH down below 8.0.

    Even though your plaster is a month or two old, the winter weather has slowed the plaster curing, so it is still behaving as if it was freshly applied plaster. For what is normally the first three or four weeks, fresh plaster will raise the PH rapidly and raise the TA and CH levels a bit more slowly. To compensate for that you need to continue adding muriatic acid quickly enough to get the PH down below 8.0 and keep it there. During the first month you may need to add substantial amounts of muriatic acid every day, or in extreme cases more than once a day.

    After the first "month", the increases in PH, TA, and CH will continue, but much more slowly, for up to a year.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    If you bring your TA down to around 60 (technique available in pool school) you will have an easier time with the pH rise. Although, you will always have to add acid as the SWG will constantly cause a rise in pH.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    Thanks! Will check into lowering the TA- also does it matter how and where the MA is put? Shallow, deep or poured along or just dump & run? Those fumes are horrible & I seem to walk into em comin & goin
    20,000 Freeform IG Gunite,Gray Plaster,Tanning Ledge w 2 Bubblers, 8f tRaised Spa with 8 jets,Fiber Optic-3 ft Sheer Decent, 1 ft Sheer Decent, Intellibrites, 2 HP Jandy Stealth Pump, 1 HP Jandy pump, 340 Jandy Cartridge Filter, Jandy Aquapure Salt System, 2-1HP Blowers....and promised but not yet delivered Rheem 105 BTU Heat Pump/Chiller

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    I concur. Not that I'm a professional or anything.

    Your pH is not 8.2!! It's at least 8.2, maybe higher. That's as high as the tester reads!

    Add enough acid to get it down to 7.2 or so, run the pump and as many waterfalls, jets, spa bubbles as you can. Anything to aerate. That will drive down the TA and cause pH to raise again. Add more acid and keep repeating. If I pull all the stops, I can drive TA down 30 points in a few hours. Once TA is lower, the pH won't climb so fast.

    So far as adding acid, I scoop a plastic bucket of water out of the pool, measure the acid into that, then pour the bucket in slowly in front of the returns. That way it's well-mixed, no chance of it sinking and pooling up in one spot. If you follow that up with your brushing, you'll know it's dispersed.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    susa's Avatar
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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    >> Those fumes are horrible & I seem to walk into em comin & goin

    agreed, which is why I installed a simpool pH to handle automatic dosing of acid =)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    With fresh plaster, just keeping the PH in range is enough of a project. I wouldn't worry about lowering the TA just yet. Focus on getting the PH down and keeping it down for now. Once things stabilize a little and the plaster curing slows down you can think about what you need to do with the TA level.

    Richard320 and benavidescj, remember that simply getting the PH in range will bring the TA level down significantly. With fresh plaster, simply keeping the PH in range is enough of a project to worry about at one time. Lowering the TA is something you should only be doing in a scaling emergency or when everything else is completely under control. Getting the PH in range will take care of any "emergency" level risk, the rest can wait till plaster curing slows down and things are more under control. Also, you don't want to be making drastic changes to the TA while the plaster is in the first few weeks, as drastic changes can occasionally interfere with the curing process.

    susa, an automatic acid feeder will not keep up with fresh plaster. In this situation it would just be one more thing to worry about. Dealing with fresh plaster is enough of a chore, you don't want to be adding any more complexity on top of what is already happening.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    Thanks Jasonlion and all others. I thought by now the acid consumption would have slowed down. I guess our warmer days will help with the curing, correct? Also is my 5.5 chlorine too high? Do I need to even worry about it? It was real low a week or so ago and I added the bleach that the calculator said and it has remained high.
    20,000 Freeform IG Gunite,Gray Plaster,Tanning Ledge w 2 Bubblers, 8f tRaised Spa with 8 jets,Fiber Optic-3 ft Sheer Decent, 1 ft Sheer Decent, Intellibrites, 2 HP Jandy Stealth Pump, 1 HP Jandy pump, 340 Jandy Cartridge Filter, Jandy Aquapure Salt System, 2-1HP Blowers....and promised but not yet delivered Rheem 105 BTU Heat Pump/Chiller

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    susa's Avatar
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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    >> automatic acid feeder will not keep up with fresh plaster.

    I respectfully disagree. Unit took care of fresh plaster from 30 days of initial water fill-up and was simple to install and simple to replace a new bottle of MA from Home Depot.

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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    Susa,
    I would have had to have a 250 gallon MA tank as much of this as I've been adding
    20,000 Freeform IG Gunite,Gray Plaster,Tanning Ledge w 2 Bubblers, 8f tRaised Spa with 8 jets,Fiber Optic-3 ft Sheer Decent, 1 ft Sheer Decent, Intellibrites, 2 HP Jandy Stealth Pump, 1 HP Jandy pump, 340 Jandy Cartridge Filter, Jandy Aquapure Salt System, 2-1HP Blowers....and promised but not yet delivered Rheem 105 BTU Heat Pump/Chiller

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: layin it all out there...first test

    FC at 5.5 is fine, though you can let it come down a little for now if you want. With CYA at 30 the recommended range for FC is from 2 to 6. Long term, with the SWG running and CYA in the 70 to 80 target range for a SWG, the recommended FC level is about 3 to 7, so something around 5 will still be good. Just remember that as the CYA level goes up you will need to turn the percentage on the SWG down. Similarly, as the water temperature goes up you will need to turn up the percentage on the SWG. Those two effects may or may not cancel each other out to some extent.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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