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Thread: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

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    Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Dear Mr. Pool Builder...

    I do have to say that I am always thoroughly impressed at how clean and efficient you install the pad and equipment. I mean, who else can get 30sf worth of equipment on a 50sf pad in 25sf of space? Your talents are amazing.

    The question I have however is that, once the pad is installed, have you ever tried to pull a pump out of this wonderful display of space saving - without having to cut any of your own PVC? Unlike me, your contortionist skills along with your youth must surely be comparable to those who are members in the troupes of "Cirque du Soleil" (my age/youth and contortionist skills, however, are not).

    Also, your ability to plumb the pad with precision amazes me - how you use as little PVC as possible (I appreciate your economics of saving $2.00 on 2" PVC pipe). I mean, the beauty and "tightness" of the plumbing where you save $0.05 worth of PVC by butting slip and elbow connectors directly to $50 Jandy three-way valves - all of the way to the pump.

    I mean, no-one would ever need to replace the pump with - say - a different brand/model (or, even the same brand - when you plumb directly and throw the quick-connects away), and have to cut-out and replace $100 worth of valves and connectors that are now useless - turning a simple 1 hour, job into an almost complete pad 4-hour re-plumb (plus additional parts). Nah, it never happens.

    So, if you would do me, the pool guy a favor and remember - I'm getting older and don't bend as well as I used to. And leaving me at-least 3" between connectors/fittings will allow at-least one modification to your plumbing work of art without me having to cut most of it out if something ever needs replaced.

    Thank you,

    - Jeff

    (p.s., Mods, if this is more appropriate in the water bucket, won't hurt my feelings if you move it. But it might help someone who's having their pool installed to tell the PB to "leave some room to work, and leave a little extra space in the PVC id they ever have to add/modify equipment at the pad".)

    (pps, Oh, can you tell what I did today?)
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    That's a few points well made.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    I could relate to everything you said, Jeff! If it wasn't so common, that would be a funny post

    Great points, and definitely something any potential new pool owner should consider and discuss with their builder.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    When our pool was installed I told the installer that I absolutely did not want any fitting or piece of equipment within 6" of each other. You would not believe the look or the argument I got about that but I got my way.

    Like Bruce, it would be finny if it wasn't so true. I see the photos of equipment and plumbing posted here from time to time and say "what the heck (put mildly) were they thinking"!
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    You nailed it Jeff. My plumbing at the pad is on it's third incarnation. Once by the PB, once by me when I relocated the equipment, and then again by me when I replaced the pump and filter. It's gotten better everytime. Amazingly, unions seem to have become a better value every time and winterizing was so much easier this year than it was at first that I kept thinking I was forgetting something.
    TFP Moderator
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    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...



    GREAT post, Jeff!!

    Been there, done that and contorted myself to the chiropractor :P

    I've found unions, pipe extenders and a nifty tool called a 'socket saver' (Tim, Spishex, turned me onto them a few years ago) can be a real help for the plumbing issues. However, you should also include Mr. Electrician in your letter - when he doesn't leave you enough room for additional upgrades or enough cord on a hard-wired pump, etc, contortionism just ain't enough
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    You got that right Ted! I was one of those electrical types and absolutely hated going behind someone that wouldn't even leave you 2" of spare wire.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Here's a funny one - I had a pump replacement on a pad last year that had ZERO slack PVC between the pump's output and the filter. It went:
    Jandy Union (Pump), Slip, 90o Elbow, JVA, slip, Jandy Union (Filter). And only about 1" on the pump input side. It went Spa/Pool - JVA, 1/2", Jandy Union.

    So - the Stealth II motor went out, and the customer wanted the 2-speed stealth as a replacement.

    I pulled the pump (contorted to get it out) and got it into my shop. The new pump arrived and the unions were in the EXACT same place - WOOT! WOOT!... right?

    We, I'll be danged - I looked and the threads were different! I couldn't believe my eyes! It seems some product manager in their infinite wisdom at Jandy decided that their new "VersaPlumb(TM)" thread was better than the NPT thread they used to have on their unions. So, I had to cut-out almost all of the pumping on the pressure side and rebuild it - all because Jandy changed the thread on the wet-end!
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Here's a pic of my suction side plumbing (sorry about the mess). There is NO room to replace a ball valve if I had to . When I pulled the pump to swap in a 2-speed motor, I had to unbolt the strainer housing from the front of the pump just to get it out
    At least they used a union on the discharge line from the pump...

    This kind of plumbing makes me VERY upset, and I have to live with it, not the guy who installed it. I'm sure if it was his own pool, he would have done things a bit differently
    12,800 gallon IG plaster kidney-shaped pool, waterslide, 800 gallon spa.
    1HP 2 speed Sta-Rite pool pump, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite spa jet pump. 2 skimmers, 1 main drain
    Purex-Triton TR-60 325 lb.sand filter. 2" Plumbing, Intex SWCG, TF-100 test kit.
    Link to pics of my pool! http://www.troublefreepool.com/my-oasis-t26558.html

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Quote Originally Posted by guamguy
    This kind of plumbing makes me VERY upset, and I have to live with it, not the guy who installed it. I'm sure if it was his own pool, he would have done things a bit differently
    I don't blame you a bit. Minor plumbing repair is going to require concrete work now!
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Quote Originally Posted by guamguy
    This kind of plumbing makes me VERY upset, and I have to live with it, not the guy who installed it. I'm sure if it was his own pool, he would have done things a bit differently
    I don't blame you a bit. Minor plumbing repair is going to require concrete work now!
    If those valves ever fail in the open position I would just leave them in and plumb the new valves next to them. It would be easier than busting out the concrete. It would be ugly but functional.
    TFP Moderator
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    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    It would also be possible to cut them off at the wall and use an inside slip coupler. Those can be a little hard to find, but they do exist for use in situations like this one.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    and use an inside slip coupler.
    Those are called street couplings. And yes, hard to find but the do exist.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Bk, (or anyone else) - can you tell me what 'street' means? We used a few different types of 'street' 90s (some were MPT X socket, some were slip X socket some were MPT X FPT, etc - but they were all 'street' elbows)

    What you and Jason are talking about are what I've always called 'pipe extenders' because the slip side glues into the inside of a piece of pipe and the 'bell' has the same diameter as the original pipe, so will accept a coupling or other standard fitting.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    "Street is the term for a coupling where one end fits into the pipe rather than the other way around. If you go to the plumbing supply house and ask for a 900 Ell (its not an elbow. You ask for an elbow and you are an amatuer for sure) , you will get an ell thats female on both ends. A street Ell has one female end, one male.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    I have always referred to 90s as street or socket. Pipe extenders as bk mentioned are insider fittings and reduce a pipe's inside diameter.

    If I used a 2" insider coupling, aka pipe extender, I have just reduced the 2" to 1-3/4". They are a "last resort" fitting.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    This has STICKEY written all over it Jason.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    I guess I should post pics of the install they did at my house. They've put a 90 degree elbow right where the pipe comes out from the ground through a sleeve in my concrete pad. Same goes for the clown electrician who barely left slack in the wires even though he new that the wall he installed the equipment on was only temporary and I would build a shed at some point.

    Worst case is it wasn't even to save money, the pipe was there, they just cut it short so it looks tidy and then toss the leftovers out.
    19.5k gallons in ground, P4 panel with turbocell SWG, 1hp Hayward superpump II, sand filter, Heater low nox 250k btu heater, solar cover on rocky roller

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    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Mr .Pool Builder strikes again:


    Printed with the owner's permission.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Open letter to Mr. Pool Builder...

    Troublefreepool needs to be more like facebook. I want to "like" your picture. With the exception of leaving no slack or room to pull the pump, he did a very clean job! Exactly points out that any mod anywhere (except the filter) will likely need significant replacement of the pad. Each one of those check valves runs ~$50 each, and the three-way valves runs $75-100.

    Oh - new pad - why no automation!
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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