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Thread: Inground concrete question

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    Inground concrete question

    Got several bids and one PB who is established beats everyone by $9000.The only difference I can see in his quote is he pours concrete for the floor instead of vermiculite.Is this good or bad?It is a vinyl pool and Im in Missouri

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    Not sure about Missouri, but here in the ATL there is not that much profit in Vinyls. $9000 is a huge difference. I would check those bids again. Post them up on the forum so some experts can have a "look see" at them. TO me it sounds like he is hiding something that you are not seeing.

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    Can you be a little more specific on the concrete? Usually when a builder uses concrete its actually a mixture of concrete with a little vermiculite, (actually called "Pool crete" which is a name brand, but its used generically like "kleenex" for tissues) but not always. It's normally more like a grout mix with no aggregate. It smooths out nicely and IMO makes a better floor than vermiculite. I've seen pools with a straight vermiculite floor that over time looks like the moon (lots of craters). You wont find that with pool crete bottoms.
    You'll find other opinions that straight vermiculite is better. The party line is that a vermiculite bottom will not be as rough on the liner. I asked the guy who built my pool about concrete vs straight vermiculite. He said he likes the pool crete better. He said if, and its a big if, the concrete wears the liner a bit more, by the time that would be an issue, its time for a new liner anyway for other reasons. He said he used to do vermiculite years ago, but found the grout mix bottoms wear better over time.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    Quote Originally Posted by SCEADU
    Not sure about Missouri, but here in the ATL there is not that much profit in Vinyls. $9000 is a huge difference. I would check those bids again. Post them up on the forum so some experts can have a "look see" at them. TO me it sounds like he is hiding something that you are not seeing.
    Yea, check the bids. In New England, a vinyl pool with basically the same specs wont vary more than a couple thousand. Vermiculite bottoms are actually cheaper to do than pool crete, so something is definately up somewhere here.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    Thanks guys but my scanner is broke,anyone got a fax # I could send them to.LOL

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    Whats a Fax?
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    The big difference is the initial cost of the pool alone,the guy I have chosen quoted just basic 15 x 30 Pacific installed $18,999.The 2nd was $27,999 Ft Wayne 15 x 30 and is a little higher on everything.

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    The $18,000 is about what I would expect for a basic rectangle that size with including a sand filter and single speed pump. At least thats pretty close to what you would pay up here.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    Hi Big L, I am in KC and am also familiar with wildly differing bids. The guy I went with did and excellent job and also used the 'concrete' bottom which in fact was pool crete. He explained that it was a 90 psi product rather than 4000 psi normal concrete he uses. He explained that vermiculite would result in a 'shift' under foot if any real pressure were to be exerted (ie a big guy like me standing on the bottom). He told me that pool crete was also better if a diver hit bottom, they would not be as seriously hurt as the 90 psi concrete would have enough 'give' to it. The pricing you quoted sounds reasonable, and from my experience (and per my PB) Fort Wayne is noticeably more expensive, and only for some things, worth it. Not sure how much of this is true, but there is my $.02.
    Matt
    20,000 gallon, sand filter, IG vinyl

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    Thanks Beau,the more I read on here the more comfortable I am with going with the cheaper bid.

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    I have ASSUMED this about concrete vs. vermiculite bottoms. 4000 psi concrete is standard old concrete and will give you a VERY hard bottom.....hard as concrete! The disadvantage I see in that is it is aesthetically not as appealing as a softer bottom (but not by much) and perhaps may allow the the liner to be more likely to cut/tear if something heavy and sharp was thrown in or dragged across the pool.

    The vermiculite bottom (that's what I have) is pretty soft. I have heel indentations in it where kids have jumped in the shallow end. I always assumed it's primary purpose was to allow for some "flex" at the bottom of the pool.

    Any vermiculite pool bottom is going to look like the moon's surface at night with the lights on....it is impossible to get it really smooth like you can normal concrete.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    The grout mix on my pool bottom is about 90-100 psi. As I said, my builder likes it better than straight vermiculite because of the ability of the vermiculite to shift and indent too much.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    The PB told me when I asked that it was a special pool mix he orders when he calls the concrete company.I assumed it was regular concrete,but Im guessing it is a blend of some sort.I will call him today and see what they say.Thanks again

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    Re: Inground concrete question

    I'm here in minnesota and have had a 20x 40 x 4'6" vinyl liner for 25 yrs with a concrete floor 4000lb 3/8" minus or buckshot rock. I'm in the concrete business for 35 yrs and have done a lot of pools and decks for different company's. I see more and more going to concrete bottoms . In 25 yrs. I have replaced the liner 4 times , and not once because of the concrete floor. For 20 of those years I had a foam pad under the liner, and on the walls, with no issue of wrinkles.Some pics on show off your pool [20 years in the making.]

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