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Thread: manual vacuum recommendation

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    manual vacuum recommendation

    Okay. As soon as I posted that I don't need a manual vacuum because i hardly get any leaves in the pool all year, wind blows pretty strong for two days and I had enough leaves stuck in the skimmer to constrict flows. I think polaris 280 wasn't working as usual due to low flow or something. My pool got very dusty in two days.

    Anyway, so I am thinking I need a manual vacuum for windy days. I don't want to leave the pool pumps for more than I have to just to clean up after a storm.

    Here are what i found on amazon. If you have a recommendation, please send me a link.

    http://www.amazon.com/Swimline-Giant-Ve ... 647&sr=8-8

    My question what else do you need in order to use a manual vacuum. I have a telescoping pole. That's covered.

    Now, do I need a separate hose? Can I use the pressure line for Polaris 280? If I can use the pressure line, do manual pumps come with correct adaptor?

    I think I found a garden hose version at Home Depot. Is that good or bad? This might be good because i don't have to unhook the polaris.

    Anybody using pressure side manual vacuum and happy with it? I am specially interested in picking up fine particles. My pool looks very cloudy today.
    22000G Oblong shape IG pool
    Hayward Cartridge Filter
    Gray Plaster
    Emerson Threaded Energy Efficient Full-Rate 1.5HP
    Booster pump: Polaris PB4-60

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    If you use a manual vac to pick up leaves you really need a large leaf canister or else you will be emptying baskets frequently.

    Think about it. The leaves you vacuum have to go somewhere. If you use a vacuum plate, the leaves will be trapped in your skimmer basket. If you don't use a vacuum plate, the leaves will be trapped in the pump strainer basket. Neither one holds much.

    I'm not trying to talk you out of a manual vacuum, but IMO it is easier and cheaper to use a leaf rake to get most of the leaves off the bottom, then let the Polaris finish up. I routinely use 2 different bags on my 280. The large zippered one in the fall to pick up leaves, and the smaller sand/silt bag during swim season to get the fine stuff.
    20K gal IG plaster pool, Manually chlorinated with 6% bleach, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite Dura-Glas II pump, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter, Polaris 280

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    You will need a pool vacuum hose. And a vacuum head. And a vacuum plate or some kind of adaptor to fit the hose into the suction port in your skimmer. Maybe a leaf canister.

    I bought my stuff at Lowes; I had a discount coupon, so it worked out real cheap.

    When you have the skimmer basket out, look to see if you have one port or two at the bottom. If two, one goes to the main drain, and will need to be blocked with a diverter if you use a vacuum plate.

    There's pictures of all this stuff here in Pool School
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    venticoffee, your pool shape is more commonly called a dog bone.

    The leaf eater you linked to is useful for leaves but will blow sediments on the bottom into suspension.

    For the sediment, I recommend a high quality, commercial grade, rectangular vac head with ball bearing wheels. Cheaper heads have cheesy wheels that fall off. The commercial grade heads often have metal necks that don't snap off.

    A 40' hose with a swiveling cuff is likely to be the right size for your pool. Get a vacuum plate that fits over your skimmer basket. Hayward, Pentair, and Waterway each have their own. Your skimmer lid should have an identifying brand mark on it.

    When storing the hose, keep it out of the sun. The UV will kill it. The same holds true for the vac head. Follow this advice and they will last a long time.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    You will need a pool vacuum hose. And a vacuum head. And a vacuum plate or some kind of adaptor to fit the hose into the suction port in your skimmer. Maybe a leaf canister.

    I bought my stuff at Lowes; I had a discount coupon, so it worked out real cheap.

    When you have the skimmer basket out, look to see if you have one port or two at the bottom. If two, one goes to the main drain, and will need to be blocked with a diverter if you use a vacuum plate.

    There's pictures of all this stuff here in Pool School
    I just had an eureka moment. I am so new at this. Until now, I thought the reason I had a pressure line and polaris 280 was because I am not supposed to have a suction vacuum on my system. If I undersand correctly, there are pros to using a pressure vacuum and that's probably why previous owner installed it. All pool with a filter can have a manual suction vacuum. I was thinking I need to capture fine particles before it goes thru skimmer, but I don't have to.

    I can get a plaster vacuum with hose and adopter. Doh! I've been thinking that I need something with a net.
    22000G Oblong shape IG pool
    Hayward Cartridge Filter
    Gray Plaster
    Emerson Threaded Energy Efficient Full-Rate 1.5HP
    Booster pump: Polaris PB4-60

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    Sometimes obvious isn't so obvious to a new pool man.
    22000G Oblong shape IG pool
    Hayward Cartridge Filter
    Gray Plaster
    Emerson Threaded Energy Efficient Full-Rate 1.5HP
    Booster pump: Polaris PB4-60

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    Pool sweeps help keep a clean pool clean.

    Manually vacuuming is used to clean a dirty pool.

    A pool sweep is not used to clean a dirty pool. It will just frustrate you.

    All pools need to be manually vacuumed at some point. Some more often than others.

    Pools are like artificial life forms. They have a heart, arteries and veins, a kidney, need to be fed and cleaned. Failures in any of these areas results in a sick pool. We are the the controller and caretaker. We feed them, turn them on and off, and cure them when they are sick. We may off load some tasks to make our life easier but must be prepared to retake the responsibility or face consequences.

    I clean and feed my pool weekly when it's open. If a motor dies, as it did two years ago, I replace it. It takes work. If I get lazy, it gets sick or my kids and guests get sick. I do it gladly, as do all of us or we wouldn't be here helping each other. All of us were new to this at some point. We give what we were given for it help us all the more.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    When you have the skimmer basket out, look to see if you have one port or two at the bottom. If two, one goes to the main drain, and will need to be blocked with a diverter if you use a vacuum plate.
    I didn't know that I had two holes under the skimmer basket. After skimmer basket was taken out, there was another thing. It seem to prevent larger object from going thru the pipe.

    Untitled by davidnjina, on Flickr

    Here are two holes. The both holes have female threads (i.e. threads inside the pipe?) but one on the right has another fitting on top, I think.

    Untitled by davidnjina, on Flickr

    When you said one goes to the main drain, do you mean that this is used to drain the pool? or main drainage to the pump?
    What's the other hole for?

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
    David
    22000G Oblong shape IG pool
    Hayward Cartridge Filter
    Gray Plaster
    Emerson Threaded Energy Efficient Full-Rate 1.5HP
    Booster pump: Polaris PB4-60

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by venticoffee
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    When you have the skimmer basket out, look to see if you have one port or two at the bottom. If two, one goes to the main drain, and will need to be blocked with a diverter if you use a vacuum plate.
    I didn't know that I had two holes under the skimmer basket. After skimmer basket was taken out, there was another thing. It seem to prevent larger object from going thru the pipe.

    Untitled by davidnjina, on Flickr

    Here is two holes. The both holes have female threads (i.e. threads inside the pipe?) but one on the right has another fitting on top, I think.

    Untitled by davidnjina, on Flickr

    When you said one goes to the main drain, do you mean that this is used to drain the pool? or main drainage to the pump?
    What's the other hole for?

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
    David
    That flying saucer thing is a diverter. One hole goes to your pump & filter, the other will lead down to the drain in the bottom of your pool. Sliding the flapper on the bottom of the diverter adjusts the mixture of water from the bottom of the pool and skimmer intake. Obviously, if it's set to draw from the drain and you set a skimmer plate on top, it's easier to draw water from a short 2" pipe than it is from a long 1½" hose, so you won't get much suction on the vacuum.

    I found a pipe coupling that fits pretty good in my suction port and found a threaded adaptor that fits the hose, and I hook up direct. But then, I don't have very many leaves to suck up, so I can do that. If I did have a lot of leaves, I'd want a leaf canister in line.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    Pool sweeps help keep a clean pool clean.

    Manually vacuuming is used to clean a dirty pool.

    A pool sweep is not used to clean a dirty pool. It will just frustrate you.
    I don't call leaves in the pool a "dirty pool". Remember, that is how this thread started. Cleaning leaves out of the pool is just normal maintenance that a polaris is well suited for. If you let them pile up then it might need the help of a leaf rake, but I don't think that was your point...of course you would not expect an auto device of any kind to be able to clear a swamp.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    All pools need to be manually vacuumed at some point. Some more often than others.
    I patently disagree with this statement. Please explain what a manual vacuum does that an auto device such as a polaris won't do when used regularly.

    If a pool is properly maintained, a "sweep" will keep it that way indefinitely. If a pool is neglected and allowed to turn into a swamp, then that's another matter. But I assume for most folks the swamp scenario would be an extraordinary event compared to routine maintenance.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    Pools are like artificial life forms. They have a heart, arteries and veins, a kidney, need to be fed and cleaned. Failures in any of these areas results in a sick pool. We are the the controller and caretaker. We feed them, turn them on and off, and cure them when they are sick. We may off load some tasks to make our life easier but must be prepared to retake the responsibility or face consequences.

    I clean and feed my pool weekly when it's open. If a motor dies, as it did two years ago, I replace it. It takes work. If I get lazy, it gets sick or my kids and guests get sick. I do it gladly, as do all of us or we wouldn't be here helping each other. All of us were new to this at some point. We give what we were given for it help us all the more.

    Scott
    That's kind of a melodramatic metaphor, Scott. But I understand that the hard work you put into your pool is a great source of pride for you. Nothing wrong with that. But I know that a sparkling pool can be maintained in top condition without manual vacuuming. Mine is one, and I don't even own a manual vac! I think if we weren't in the off season many others would chime in with similar stories.

    All the best,
    Dave
    20K gal IG plaster pool, Manually chlorinated with 6% bleach, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite Dura-Glas II pump, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter, Polaris 280

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    When you have two large dogs that swim when they want, you vac it up every week. A pool sweep would be overwhelmed.

    Pride? No. Healthy fear and the fact that I enjoy having my house be the house the kids hang out at. I know where they are and what they are up to. I treat my customer's pools similarly. I make it possible to be at ease if my kids are swimming there. Then the homeowner knows it's ok for them.

    A pool sweep will not keep up with and October leaf drop or May oak tree pollen string drop around here. June to September, usually no problem unless the dogs swim and the yard has grass and dirt for the animals to run and roll in, as my own yard does.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    When you have two large dogs that swim when they want, you vac it up every week. A pool sweep would be overwhelmed.

    Pride? No. Healthy fear and the fact that I enjoy having my house be the house the kids hang out at. I know where they are and what they are up to. I treat my customer's pools similarly. I make it possible to be at ease if my kids are swimming there. Then the homeowner knows it's ok for them.

    A pool sweep will not keep up with and October leaf drop or May oak tree pollen string drop around here. June to September, usually no problem unless the dogs swim and the yard has grass and dirt for the animals to run and roll in, as my own yard does.

    Scott
    So you're talking a lot of dirt in the pool. That makes sense.

    I still don't get the leaf problem though. My pool is inundated each fall by 2 large pecans, 1 Bradford pear, and several crape myrtles, not to mention the year round mess from the juniper. I also get the requisite spring pollen deluge, but probably not as bad as some.

    Just out of curiosity, do you own an auto pool cleaner? You still haven't explained the advantages of manual vacuuming over an auto device. Is it capacity? The leaf bag for the polaris holds a fair amount—more than either my skimmer basket or pump strainer basket. You must have a massive leaf canister. Or maybe you vacuum to waste?
    20K gal IG plaster pool, Manually chlorinated with 6% bleach, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite Dura-Glas II pump, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter, Polaris 280

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    I do own a sweep. The dogs attack it, especially the Labrador.

    A pool sweep does nothing for the swamped pools I come come across. Pool opening season is the worst. People get lazy and are impatient. More $$ for me. A sweep in a pool at shock levels - dried out hose and dead algae in suspension that may not settle or get filtered. As Forest Gump said while jogging, It happens.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: manual vacuum recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    venticoffee, your pool shape is more commonly called a dog bone.
    Here is my pool shape from google map.


    I found a pool volume calculator with similar shape (Oblong).
    http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/r ... olcalc.htm

    Using the following parameters:
    Deep end: 8ft
    Shallow end: 4ft

    Large Diameter: 18ft
    Small Diameter: 16ft
    Length: 32ft

    I get 22,032 gallons. I think I am going to use this value.
    22000G Oblong shape IG pool
    Hayward Cartridge Filter
    Gray Plaster
    Emerson Threaded Energy Efficient Full-Rate 1.5HP
    Booster pump: Polaris PB4-60

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