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Thread: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

  1. #1
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    Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    Lots of wrongs have occurred!
    I am a New pool owner that just moved from Wisconsin to the Florida Panhandle . I have maintained very specialized indoor pools (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jibm7kyIGcM hard to see but the ship facade has a 100,000 gallon "ocean" sitting in front of it)) but have never had in outdoor/inground pool. With my trusty Taylor K-2006 I found my CYA to be 140ppm so I decided to drain 2/3's of the water (I had Pinch-A-Penny test and they read 110 (she did it so fast I don't know how she got any reading)). I was informed that because I did not have "dry wells" I could drain without concern. That was wrong! I found out the hard way the water table is about 4'. I started pumping out, returned after a while and found the walls of the deep end bulging. Wrongly decided to continue draining . Shut the pump off at 9pm, came back in the morning to find significant bulging in the deep end and the shallow end floating. I researched on this site, bought a sump pump (too small), started sucking the water from behind the liner and also started to add water. As I added water I used a brush to sweep the liner back into place and move the "under water" to the deep end where the sump pump inlet was. All seemed well. That was wrong. As I am filling and ground water is being forced back into the ground the liner popped out from one of the corners . I figured I could strech it later. I assume thats wrong. About an hour later, another corner popped . I rightly decided to stop filling, regroup, check the website, look for answers and cry a little. Ummm, the taste of "dumb mistake tears". Not really but whatever!
    Picture shows the worst corner which popped out about 3 1/2 feet. One other corner has popped a couple inches and it appears the remaining two are ready to go (i expect to find them popped in the morning).

    Should I keep filling and try to strech the liner as the water gets closer to the top? Full city-water fill cost about $75.00
    Is this a job for a professional with a big pump (not that my pump is to small even though it is)?
    Do you think a professional can reset it if the bead is not damaged?
    Do I need a new liner installed by a professional?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    BBB 26,700 Gal inground Vinyl lined pool with water. Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump running at 1,500 rpm 24/7. Polaris 360 with booster pump. 200Lb sand filter. Some floating dinosaurs that my 8 Year Old threw in and Hair of the Dog. Taylor K-2006

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    That liner looks a little long in the tooth. The lowering of the water allowed it to shrink. I am sorry to tell you this but is liner time.

    With a water table of 4' below, there must be a dry well. Check the perimeter of the deck for a pipe, usually 1.5", usually at the deep end. It might be buried just under the sod, which will make it harder to find. If there is non, then the only choice is to wait until the water table drops.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  3. #3
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    The previous home owner left some scrap liner in the garage and I figured for minimal cost I would try to affect a repair. I made several vertical cuts to releave the tension, cut off the bead of the old liner, installed the scrap liner behind the existing liner and glued them together. It looks like #$@* but it appears to be working . I continued to fill and did a dye test for leaks (medicine syringe with some cabernet sauvignon). No leaks and I am starting to feel better (the wine helped). Continued to fill and feel better . Checked the chemistry and got ready to make my adjustments when I noticed a tear in the shallow end which caused me to look closer at the rest of the pool. Upon closer inspection, it would appear that the vermiculite in the deepend slopes has started to sag/collapse (much worse than the picture shows). Looks like I am in this for a new liner and a refurbished bottom.

    I got some good news. I found the dry well.

    I share my tales of woe in the hope that someone else reads this before they make the choice to drain their pool. Make sure you know what you are doing and have the correct equipment or go hire a professional unless you want an expensive lesson in how to replace a vinyl pool liner.

    Being that I am home during the days, would people be interested in me posting pictures of the repair effort?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    BBB 26,700 Gal inground Vinyl lined pool with water. Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump running at 1,500 rpm 24/7. Polaris 360 with booster pump. 200Lb sand filter. Some floating dinosaurs that my 8 Year Old threw in and Hair of the Dog. Taylor K-2006

  4. #4
    Senior Member dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    Quote Originally Posted by sixn3is7
    Being that I am home during the days, would people be interested in me posting pictures of the repair effort?
    Six...sorry to hear the news But we sure do love pics Keep them coming
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

  5. #5
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    Any thoughts on a respectable price for resurfacing the vermiculite and replaing the liner. The pool is 8'X36' with an average depth of 5.5 feet.
    BBB 26,700 Gal inground Vinyl lined pool with water. Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump running at 1,500 rpm 24/7. Polaris 360 with booster pump. 200Lb sand filter. Some floating dinosaurs that my 8 Year Old threw in and Hair of the Dog. Taylor K-2006

  6. #6
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    Now I need some opinions. First PB arrived and gave a quote of $4,995. Price includes a 30/30 liner, major repair to the bottom, repair/replace pool light and a coupon to purchase chemcials free from them for the first fill.

    My biggest concern is that the PB will not truck water in and says he will use city water from the house. We live right next to the Gulf of Mexico, about 1,000 feet from Pensacola Sound, and our water table is about 3.5 feet. I am concerned with the time it will take to fill the pool and the fact that their sump pump MUST run will I am filling the pool, at least 24 hours. It seams like to much risk. If we loose power, the liner floats and their contract says they wont cover it. The company has been doing business in the Pensacola area since the 80's but it just doesn't seem right to me.

    Thoughts?

    Also, is there any real value in a 30/30 liner as opposed to a 20/30 or 20/20?
    BBB 26,700 Gal inground Vinyl lined pool with water. Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump running at 1,500 rpm 24/7. Polaris 360 with booster pump. 200Lb sand filter. Some floating dinosaurs that my 8 Year Old threw in and Hair of the Dog. Taylor K-2006

  7. #7
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    My standard is 20/20. When I have a rough floor, I usually smooth it some but when it needs more and the customer doesn't want to, sometime a thicker floor is called for. Rough walls may get wall foam but high water tables sometimes make the thicker wall material a better option. With high water tables, the foam may let go of the wall and float/bunch up, causing the bead to let go.

    In a normal replacement situation, a 20 will last as long as a 28 mil.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  8. #8
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    Welcome to TFP!!

    Sorry 'bout the liner and floor

    Why won't the PB truck in a load of water? Can you use a fire hydrant for the quick fill? There are potential wrinkling issues with the truck or hydrant fill, but I can tell you how to avoid them.

    5K is ~ what my former boss in Ct. would have charged for similar work, but pool stuff is supposed to be less expensive down south

    I agree with Scott on the thickness of the liner
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  9. #9
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    Fixed
    Attached Images Attached Images
    BBB 26,700 Gal inground Vinyl lined pool with water. Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump running at 1,500 rpm 24/7. Polaris 360 with booster pump. 200Lb sand filter. Some floating dinosaurs that my 8 Year Old threw in and Hair of the Dog. Taylor K-2006

  10. #10
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    fixed
    Attached Images Attached Images
    BBB 26,700 Gal inground Vinyl lined pool with water. Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump running at 1,500 rpm 24/7. Polaris 360 with booster pump. 200Lb sand filter. Some floating dinosaurs that my 8 Year Old threw in and Hair of the Dog. Taylor K-2006

  11. #11
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    fixed
    Attached Images Attached Images
    BBB 26,700 Gal inground Vinyl lined pool with water. Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump running at 1,500 rpm 24/7. Polaris 360 with booster pump. 200Lb sand filter. Some floating dinosaurs that my 8 Year Old threw in and Hair of the Dog. Taylor K-2006

  12. #12
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help please. Liner popping and sagging

    Lookin Good!!!
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

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