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Thread: Help with pump please

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    Help with pump please

    My girlfriends parents pool pump bearings are about to seize.
    I am not sure of the size of the pool, but is is big.
    From the steps to the other end is at least 35' and
    I'd say another 35' from that side to the deep end.
    It has got to be at least 35,000 gallons.
    The house/pool was probably built in the early to mid 90's



    The filter is a Hayward S244T.
    The pump spec tag is burned and un-readable but it is a 2 speed Hayward.
    There is also a 2 speed timer.

    The pool has 2 skimmers and the 2 pipes come back and T directly at the pump.
    There is only 1 return line, so it must split in the ground to the pool.

    All plumbing is 1.5" sch 40 pvc.

    The pump pad is approx 20' from the pool and is probably 2'-3' below water level


    Because the plumbing and filter is grossly undersized (imho), I'm thinking about replacing the pump with
    a Hayward SP2610X152S 1.5 h.p. 2 speed

    Questions:

    1- Is this the biggest pump I can pair with the current filter?
    2- Is there anything else I need to consider?

    Thanks for the help
    16x32 Grecian, vinyl liner, IG, 19000 gal.
    1.5 h.p. Hayward Super Pump 2 speed. Hayward S244T sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG, TF100

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help with pump please

    I doubt your pump was as undersized as you think it was. However the 1½hp will be fine for your pool.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Help with pump please

    Thanks for the reply.

    Do you think I can install a pump larger than 1.5 hp with this filter?
    16x32 Grecian, vinyl liner, IG, 19000 gal.
    1.5 h.p. Hayward Super Pump 2 speed. Hayward S244T sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG, TF100

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    Re: Help with pump please

    You should not install anything larger than 1.5hp. Your S244T filter has a design flow rate of @65 gpm. The 1.5" plumbing won't move water faster than that without really increasing your electric bill. The pump model you list will be a very good fit for your existing installation, but going larger will only hurt you in energy bill and lifespan of the pump and filter.
    APSP CST Certified
    17k inground concrete; 1.5hp 2 speed Tristar pump, 300sq.ft. Cartridge filter, AquaLogic PS-4 w/ Tcell-15, Navigator suction cleaner.

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    Re: Help with pump please

    Darn, Ranger is fast. Bigger isn't better.

    Simply put:
    1.5" plumbing is maxed at 1.5 HP. Generally speaking, beyond that, you will have too much friction in the plumbing for a larger pump to overcome. You'd waste a lot of electricity for essentially the same flow rate.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Help with pump please

    Timing is everything...
    APSP CST Certified
    17k inground concrete; 1.5hp 2 speed Tristar pump, 300sq.ft. Cartridge filter, AquaLogic PS-4 w/ Tcell-15, Navigator suction cleaner.

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    susa's Avatar
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    Re: Help with pump please

    I also have 1.5 inch pipes but run a 3 HP pump, IntelliFlow VF

    The reason of course is the total control over watts and rpm of the system as it runs currently 24 hours / day at just 95 watts

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    Re: Help with pump please

    But I'm sure that you'd agree that under normal circumstances, a 3hp pump on 1.5" plumbing would be a poor decision. Yes, you can dial your VSP way down, but he's already got a 2 speed pump, 2 speed timeclock and his low speed will give him pretty much the same energy savings that you have, he just doesn't have to shell out another 1200 bucks. His payback time would likely be 5-8 years, not months.
    APSP CST Certified
    17k inground concrete; 1.5hp 2 speed Tristar pump, 300sq.ft. Cartridge filter, AquaLogic PS-4 w/ Tcell-15, Navigator suction cleaner.

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    Re: Help with pump please

    Go ahead susa, crank that bad boy up to full speed. Tell us what happens to your stuff. lol. Don't do it!. I was just kidding. The VF and VS, at full speeds are 3 HP pumps but when they are dialed down, they are very efficient and are running at a much reduced power level.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Help with pump please

    Great info everyone.
    I really appreciate it.
    16x32 Grecian, vinyl liner, IG, 19000 gal.
    1.5 h.p. Hayward Super Pump 2 speed. Hayward S244T sand filter
    Circupool RJ45 SWG, TF100

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Help with pump please

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    Go ahead susa, crank that bad boy up to full speed. Tell us what happens to your stuff. lol. Don't do it!. I was just kidding. The VF and VS, at full speeds are 3 HP pumps but when they are dialed down, they are very efficient and are running at a much reduced power level.

    Scott
    Actaully, I don't think anything would happen to his equipment and/or plumbing. Running a high HP pump on small plumbing will simply result in higher head loss and lower flow rates.

    The CEC performs measurements of the Intelliflo with Curve-A which represents a typical pool with 1.5" plumbing. This is an operating point of 71 GPM @ 86' of head which is still well within the operating region of the Intelliflo. High head loss, yes but still nothing bad would happen to the plumbing and/or equipment. Also, efficiency would only suffer a little bit with 1.82 gallons/watt-hr vs 2.14 gallons/watt-hr for Curve-C which reprents 2" plumbing.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Help with pump please

    Correct, nothing would blow up, but the whole point of the VSP would be negated due to the huge increase in head loss you mention. Since the pumps can only push as much water as they can pull, the suction plumbing limits the entire circulation system. The filter is the 2nd limitation to overall circulation. The choice of a pump is entirely dependent on these two factors. My entire point was, to a pool owner who may not be an engineer, not to exceed the limitations of his existing system, so as to be as efficient as is reasonable without huge expenses that would result in only miniscule improvement. Efficiency...
    APSP CST Certified
    17k inground concrete; 1.5hp 2 speed Tristar pump, 300sq.ft. Cartridge filter, AquaLogic PS-4 w/ Tcell-15, Navigator suction cleaner.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Help with pump please

    High head loss does not really change the economics much when chosing between a two speed pump vs a VSP. High head loss will occur on both pumps and the efficiency will drop on both pumps so net net, the Intelliflo will still have better efficiency than a two speed pump. But to your point, lets look at when the Intelliflo pays for itself. Using the pump cost comparison spread sheet in the pump tools section of my sig and the following assumptions:

    Intelliflo vs SP2610X152S
    Plumbing Curve-A
    1 turn/day at high speed, 1 turn/day low speed
    Intelliflo RPM is set to match same flow rate as 2 speed (54 GPM & 27 GPM)
    Intelliflo VS3050 Cost: $900
    Intelliflo VF Cost: $1500
    SP2610X152S cost: $500
    $0.13/kwh

    It would take about 15 months for the Intelliflo to pay for itself vs the new two speed. The VF about 27 months. But if you assume better plumbing (Curve-C), the payoff occurs only 2 months earlier so not a big difference. The Intelliflo will usually save you money over the life of the pump no matter what the plumbing.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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