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Thread: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

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    acaciolo's Avatar
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    KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Has anyone heard of this product? a new company is marketing it at the AC pool show, and it certainly sounds like snake oil...but some very very reliable subcontractors of mine in the industry have seen this unit and say it really, really works.

    http://www.krystalklor.com/index.html is the old name.

    it now is being sold as http://www.thepoolprodigy.com/

    The literally want to give me a unit to try for free...and then give it back if I don't like it after 60 days. They agree, it sounds too good to be true.

    This is how they describe it:

    put in 2 oz of some making Rk12 (and epa approved sanitizer) and add a few gallons of muriatic acid into their tank. It creates sometime of gas/ion caused by the electricity running through the titanium rods in the tank. this gas is then injected into the pool return line.

    They have 600 installed in AZ...pH doesn't shift at all and alkalinity stays constant. The sanitizer it creates is measured by a standard drop test kit and stays stable around 2-3 ppm chlorine. So, it somehow is generating something that resembled chlorine.

    They claim..no salt..no chlorine...no pH adjustment...no alkalinity adjustment. Truly makes a pool hassle free.

    Has anyone ever heard or seen it? I can't find much info on it...but again, it is coming from a very reputable supplier of mine.

    thanks!

    tony caciolo
    www.monogramcustompools.com
    Owner of Monogram Custom Pools in NE PA. My Personal Pool - 1000sf gunite pebble pool with 1500 gallon spa/grotto and 500 gallon outdoor spa; Pentair i9 Intellitouch with i10x expansion panel. Screenlogic 2/iPhone
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    acaciolo's Avatar
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    soo...I just did some more research. It appears as if the cathode, anode, muriatic acid and the magical "epa approved" sanitizer are simply creating a chlorine gas. Sounds sort of like a self contained chlorine plant. I found some old sites that stated that it adds 100% pure chlorine.

    so it kinda sounds like a small little chlorine factory. chem geeks out there, do you agree?
    Owner of Monogram Custom Pools in NE PA. My Personal Pool - 1000sf gunite pebble pool with 1500 gallon spa/grotto and 500 gallon outdoor spa; Pentair i9 Intellitouch with i10x expansion panel. Screenlogic 2/iPhone
    Intelloflo SVRS main pump, 6 whisperflow pumps 2hp to 3hp, Intellichem system, ic60 salt water cell, Sta rite 400k btu heater, Pentair 120k btu heat pump

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    And it is (too good to be true).

    I very much don't like sites that make huge claims and then don't tell you how it works. A number of their claims are obviously false and others are misleading. They make various accusations against SWG systems that simply aren't true, and several others that are sure to be just as true about their unit as they are of conventional SWG systems. For example all pools have salt in them, it is simply a question of how much. There are a couple SWGs out there that work without any added salt, just as they do. More importantly, their claims of not needing to add acid to the pool are ridiculous, since you just add the acid into their tank instead. For that kind of money you can purchase a SWG and an acid feed system, and still have some money left over, which completely cancels out their only possible advantage.

    It is difficult to tell what the unit is really doing, though it very much reminds me of the old brine tank SWGs. It does seem possible that they may have fixed some of the problems with the old brine tank designs. It is also possible that it is just some old design, with all the old problems, recycled with fresh claims.

    Given how expensive it is, I really don't see the point. Even if it works perfectly, I can get something significantly less expensive that also works perfectly, don't make silly claims, fits in much less space, from someone who provides meaningful technical information, which has large networks of trained service people, and stocks spare parts all over the place.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    I'm always a little iffy about a product when the website isn't even checked for spelling errors!
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    I was an inch away from ordering one if it made a good margarita as well..............................

    How much was it? I never saw any prices.
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp
    I was an inch away from ordering one if it made a good margarita as well..............................

    How much was it? I never saw any prices.
    Only $2395 for your pool, and that's a heck of a deal. My pool would run $2595...
    20K gal IG plaster pool, Manually chlorinated with 6% bleach, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite Dura-Glas II pump, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter, Polaris 280

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    I think I can wear out about 10 Frozen Concoction Makers for that price!
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beez
    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp
    I was an inch away from ordering one if it made a good margarita as well..............................

    How much was it? I never saw any prices.
    Only $2395 for your pool, and that's a heck of a deal. My pool would run $2595...
    or roughly 16 intex swgs...although those frozen drink machines sound like a good deal too
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    yes...it all is very cryptic. But..the one amazing thing...one of the companies that seems to now be the primary reseller (wet edge pool finishes) is giving a lifetime warranty on materials and labor on all of their pool finishes if you use the pool prodigy. Sounds kinda crazy...

    It truly sounds like its own little self contained chlorine generator. I'll post more if I ever get some facts.
    Owner of Monogram Custom Pools in NE PA. My Personal Pool - 1000sf gunite pebble pool with 1500 gallon spa/grotto and 500 gallon outdoor spa; Pentair i9 Intellitouch with i10x expansion panel. Screenlogic 2/iPhone
    Intelloflo SVRS main pump, 6 whisperflow pumps 2hp to 3hp, Intellichem system, ic60 salt water cell, Sta rite 400k btu heater, Pentair 120k btu heat pump

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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by acaciolo
    yes...it all is very cryptic. But..the one amazing thing...one of the companies that seems to now be the primary reseller (wet edge pool finishes) is giving a lifetime warranty on materials and labor on all of their pool finishes if you use the pool prodigy. Sounds kinda crazy...

    It truly sounds like its own little self contained chlorine generator. I'll post more if I ever get some facts.
    Well, true, but that is also what an SWG is...maybe I'm missing something...
    20K gal IG plaster pool, Manually chlorinated with 6% bleach, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite Dura-Glas II pump, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter, Polaris 280

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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beez
    Well, true, but that is also what an SWG is...maybe I'm missing something... :scratch:
    The difference is that you do not need high salt levels in the bulk pool water. The higher salt (actually chloride from the acid) is only in the unit, not in the pool.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by acaciolo
    yes...it all is very cryptic. But..the one amazing thing...one of the companies that seems to now be the primary reseller (wet edge pool finishes) is giving a lifetime warranty on materials and labor on all of their pool finishes if you use the pool prodigy. Sounds kinda crazy...

    It truly sounds like its own little self contained chlorine generator. I'll post more if I ever get some facts.
    Ever read a Wet Edge warranty? Pretty comical (I have a copy if you need it).

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    acaciolo's Avatar
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    I haven't seen their warranty...but I'd love to. send me a copy if you would.
    Owner of Monogram Custom Pools in NE PA. My Personal Pool - 1000sf gunite pebble pool with 1500 gallon spa/grotto and 500 gallon outdoor spa; Pentair i9 Intellitouch with i10x expansion panel. Screenlogic 2/iPhone
    Intelloflo SVRS main pump, 6 whisperflow pumps 2hp to 3hp, Intellichem system, ic60 salt water cell, Sta rite 400k btu heater, Pentair 120k btu heat pump

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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Quote Originally Posted by Beez
    Well, true, but that is also what an SWG is...maybe I'm missing something...
    The difference is that you do not need high salt levels in the bulk pool water. The higher salt (actually chloride from the acid) is only in the unit, not in the pool.
    Richard-Does this seem like it would work then? I am trying to figure out if it is a viable option or not, and I am not smart enough to know! Did anyone figure out what RK12 is?

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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    This looks like standard electrolysis, but using concentrated Muriatic Acid instead of a brine (salt) solution. Muriatic Acid, of course, is hydrochloric acid so has plenty of chloride ion. The electrolysis will produce hydrogen gas and chlorine gas. Early products from other manufacturers (using brine systems) had problems with the hydrogen gas vent getting blocked, but there is no reason to think this product has that problem.

    The rate of chlorine gas feed into the pump basket will be so slow that the low pH upon addition should not be a problem even for the pump. However, overall for the pool I would expect the pH to drop unless the TA is kept very high. The product claims to control the pH and not destroy alkalinity (i.e. lower the TA), but I don't see how that is since chlorine gas dissolving in water is very acidic and the usage/consumption of chlorine is very acidic.

    The hydrogen gas generation produces lye, but the Muriatic Acid should combine with that to produce water unless they use a special membrane (such as Nafion used in the chlor-alkali process). Adding just 1 ppm FC per day of chlorine gas over a week, or 7 ppm FC, would lower the pH from around 7.5 to 7.1 and the TA would drop by about 10 ppm. However, they claim that this does not occur. Their How It Works sounds consistent with normal electrolysis except for the pH control which is somewhat of a mystery to me. My best guess is that they also pull from the hydrogen gas generation side's liquid which is high in pH (it's lye) to help control pH, but they must keep that separate from the hydrochloric acid and that seems unlikely to me since you don't add separate liquids to the unit (i.e. you just add hydrochloric acid and their RK-12). Maybe the RK-12 is added to a separate part of the unit in the hydrogen gas generation side though it doesn't sound like that is what is done.

    If you are considering reselling this then the company might loan you a unit to try out in your own pool -- you can certainly ask them.
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    I wonder why I can't find an MSDS for the RK-12? I googled all kinds of combinations.
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Thanks, Richard. The "try me" price is a bit high, but I'm still talking with them so maybe that will come down. I am not opposed to trying it on my pool. If it worked it would be a nice option for some folks.

    I might just call call and see if I can get the MSDS sheet, Richard320. I'll let you know.

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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Anyone watch the install video? Black and white wires on a 220V is a no-no. That should be black and red. No ground? Strapping the PSU to a pipe? No weather proof conduit? I doubt it's UL listed. It would fail any electrical inspection.

    I neither saw the fellow power it up, nor add acid (and it was very yellow).

    I wonder how often you need to add acid. Does it tell you?

    How often doe the electrodes need cleaning or replacing?

    Chlorine gas is pretty corrosive stuff. How often do the hoses or feeder valve need changing? What happens if the top is removed, say by an untrained person?

    Adding chlorine before a heater? Yum Yum Eat Em Up. (very, very old Little Rascals reference)

    Will there be suction issues with variable speed and two speed pumps and the lower flows they generate?

    This thing scares me.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    Scott, those are all good questions, I am happy with my Rola Chem, 15 gallon Carboy and adding acid every 4 -6 weeks, I'm with you, it scares me after watching that video.

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    Re: KrystalKlor, Prodigy? Sounds too good to be true.

    I wonder what would happen if this thing was installed in an enclosed pumproom and the chlorine gas tube popped out while the unit was on? Somebody could walk into a room with a high concentration of chlorine gas. Not good.
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