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Thread: Armor pools

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    Armor pools

    Any of you know anything about using this material for pools??? I've had a liner pool before and just dont really want another one. My local gunite guy wants an arm and a leg for a pool. SO the third option is this... http://www.armorpools.com/dialup/nwb1.html Trouble is, I cant find anyone directly that has done this DIY. Thanks for taking a look.
    (click the little "next" in the corner of the photos to see the way these guys roll this stuff into a pool)
    13000 gal IG Diamond Brite surface. Sta-Rite 37 sq ft System 3 DE w/ torn grids soon to be replaced by a Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter

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    Re: Armor pools

    I just doubt "The worlds strongest Pool" claim. a few thin layers of epoxy resin and some strand matting are no match for re-inforced concrete. Leave it empty for any length of time and any ground movement will crush it. Their guarantee would need very close inspection. I have seen steel sided pools slowly crushed and deformed by ground movement over a number of winters and they are stronger than some matting and epoxy.

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    Re: Armor pools

    EVERY fiberglass lined gunite and liner pool I have ever seen has had delamination problems. Don't do it! They still need to be painted periodically. I'll be the warranty covers the material but not the labor. Repairs are never seamless.

    A normal fiberglass pool might be a better option if you have an experienced and reputable installer. These can be dug and dropped into place and filled in a day. The electricals and deck can be done shortly there after, making the process a very swift one.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Armor pools

    I'm not concerned with the strength of the product. My soil is not highly expansive and I'm pretty high above the water table. They sent me a couple of samples, and these pieces really ARE stronger than any fiberglass pool I've ever seen. You couldn't break this stuff if you tried. One of the samples is about 3/8ths of an inch thick and I have beat on it with a sledge, so their claim with the hammer is a valid one. (I know reinforced concrete is very strong, but in my neck of the woods, concrete is running around 150bucks a yard for pool mix) Then there is the refinish issue with going concrete and that's something I'm just not in the mood for, been there, done that.

    I would want to use this stuff for a new build. So delamination is not an issue as I'm not sticking to anything but the wood forms. The forms will rot away over time so who cares. I like the idea that I can make what I want in any shape or design. As far as installation time, it's almost just as fast as a fiberglass pool and that's only limited to your imagination.

    Good points you brought up gentlemen, but I'm OK with these areas... Anyone else care to chime in before I buy a pallet of glue and some rolls of matting?? btw, the cost of this stuff runs around 3bucks to 7 bucks a square foot. NOW you see why I'm looking at this. It really is the cheapest on the market. Probably cheaper or as cheap as a vinyl pool without looking like a vinyl pool and none of the drawbacks of dealing with a liner. (been there too)
    13000 gal IG Diamond Brite surface. Sta-Rite 37 sq ft System 3 DE w/ torn grids soon to be replaced by a Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter

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    Re: Armor pools

    IF they apply it that thickly, it will still delaminate unless it's done in a closed environment, it will have air bubbles in the finish and will take 5 to 7 years before it's in need of service like refinishing and repairs, then continuing every few years there after.

    IMHO, a real, factory made f/g shell from a reputable maker and installed by a reputable and experienced dealer is a safer bet, by far!

    Nuff said by me. My story and I'm sticking to it.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Armor pools

    These guys are not using polyester resin. It's epoxy. After the shell is constructed, it gets coated with an epoxy paint.
    I've done lots of fiberglass repairs on boats that live in the salt water using 2 part epoxy. Never had one sink yet.

    One thing I think people don't understand about fiberglass is really how it's constructed. From the inside out, the first coat is gel. and NOTHING will ever stick to gel. Let me repeat that for some of us that are a little slow on the uptake.... I don't care what you try to stick to your gel coat, be it vinyl ester resin, epoxy, paint, or jb weld, it is VERY difficult to get anything to adhere to it for a long time under these extreme conditions. ie. boats in saltwater

    I'd like to think by staying FAR away from vinyl ester resins and staying only with epoxy; delamination, cracking or peeling of the top coating should be a non-event.

    Here is something I heard through the rumor mill.... (not sure how true it is...) But, Billy Joel has a piano shaped pool being made from this stuff.
    13000 gal IG Diamond Brite surface. Sta-Rite 37 sq ft System 3 DE w/ torn grids soon to be replaced by a Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter

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    Re: Armor pools

    Sounds like you are sold on it I can't say I've seen many forum members with this type of pool, but we sure do look forward to you letting us know how it holds up. Looks like an interesting project

    As far as things not sticking to fiberglass, I sure wouldn't mind sharing a beer with you while powerwashing my boat's hull after sitting in the marina on the LI sound for 30-60 days at a clip. Seems to me whatever algae it is, it looks pretty stuck to me, requiring a bunch of psi, bleach and elbow grease.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Armor pools

    Not really sold on it.. Just cant really find a reason to ignore the possibly of using it.

    I live on the gulf so I know all to well about barnacles attached to the bottom of my boat. If only we knew what makes these suckers stick, we could glue the world back together with it! I could even build a pool out of it!

    I'm working up the plan now to submit to this company for a quote. I'll report back with my findings.
    thanks.
    13000 gal IG Diamond Brite surface. Sta-Rite 37 sq ft System 3 DE w/ torn grids soon to be replaced by a Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter

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    Re: Armor pools

    You may be in for a bit of a shock on price. I've looked at pricing on those pools as well as http://www.ecopoxysystems.com and what I found (at least here in Oklahoma) is that its just as expensive (or more) than a new Gunite pool.

    AREA : 15' X 30' 4' Shallow to 6' deep end, Approx 900 s.f
    24 oz Matting - 150 units of matting (12 s.f per unit, 2 layers) $1,875.00
    EcoPoxy Resin - 70 gallons (Approx. 25 s.f per gallon, 2 applications) $4,300.00
    EcoPoxy Hardener - 18 Gallons (4:1 mix ratio, resin to hardener) $1,680.00
    ArmorGuard Color Top Coat - 6 units (approx 300 s.f per unit, 2 applications) $2,160.00

    TOTAL MATERIALS COST ------> $10,015.00
    That was $10k just for materials. You add excavation, plumbing, electrical, decking, materials for building the forms, labor, and equipment and you are well into the $40k - $50k range. I compared that to a $35k quote from a reputable gunite pool builder for a 18x36 Saltwater pool and it was a no-brainer. Please post your bid amounts, and if you get any gunite/vinyl bids, let us know how they compared.

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    Re: Armor pools

    Interesting post Jason. That company also bears Tom Newlands name, same as armor pools. hmm...
    Your numbers work out to be around 11bucks a foot. What happened to the 3-7 bucks a foot??
    When did you have them work up the quote? ( I wonder how hungry they are these days.. )

    Thanks for the info. Did you go concrete in the end? (Given our choice of vinyl or no pool, it'll be NO POOL)
    13000 gal IG Diamond Brite surface. Sta-Rite 37 sq ft System 3 DE w/ torn grids soon to be replaced by a Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter

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    Re: Armor pools

    Been intrigued, why don't you like vinyl, if bag liners have been a problem there is always armoured, made on site and incredibly strong.

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    Re: Armor pools

    I did dig up a quote from ORD, it was from my buddies spa. It was 10x10x3 and the tab was 1800bucks. Works out to be 8bucks a foot. This was from just a few months ago.

    Break down...

    Resin 705
    Hardener 245
    Stitch mat 324
    Top Coat 510

    I'd do this in a heartbeat rather than buy an off the shelf spa anytime. The design possibilities are endless.
    13000 gal IG Diamond Brite surface. Sta-Rite 37 sq ft System 3 DE w/ torn grids soon to be replaced by a Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter

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    Re: Armor pools

    Quote Originally Posted by jatkinson
    Interesting post Jason. That company also bears Tom Newlands name, same as armor pools. hmm...
    Your numbers work out to be around 11bucks a foot. What happened to the 3-7 bucks a foot??
    When did you have them work up the quote? ( I wonder how hungry they are these days.. )

    Thanks for the info. Did you go concrete in the end? (Given our choice of vinyl or no pool, it'll be NO POOL)
    Yea I was strongly considering going that route because it would allow me to do quite a bit of the work myself (saving on Labor). But once I saw the price and started putting other costs on paper, I could do the gunite for the same price, without having to do as much of the work myself.

    We were days from signing the contract on the Gunite pool when life threw me a curve ball and my company went under and I was out of work for about 4 months. That really put a damper on all spending. I'm thinking this coming spring/summer we will finally be able to pull the trigger.

    On the gunite/vinyl debate, it's all personal preference. I have seen maybe 4 or 5 vinyl pools online that looked like something I would want, but ultimately I HATE the way it feels on the feet. If the difference from vinyl and gunite meant another 6 months of saving, I'd wait and go with the gunite pool.

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    Re: Armor pools

    I hear you man. With the economy in the toilet, you'd think I'd be able to get laborers for a 6pack of beer. Not so in my town unfortunately. I am working numbers myself comparing it to gunite, I have the equipment to dig the hole, build the rebar, plumb and wire. What's lacking is someone willing to spray the darn thing for a price that makes sense. The finish, tile work and stone work are stuff I'm all too familiar with. Can't a guy willing to save a buck and work hard put this together? I'd like to think so.

    I had a vinyl pool in the late '70s. The feel under the toes, the wrinkles from the shoddy build and forever looking for that one leak I never found pretty much turned me off for life. And the look of those god awful fiberglass steps made want to fill it in with dirt. I've designed something pretty special, but not off the charts. It would be EASY to do out of this "fiberglass" epoxy stuff and just slightly more challenging with gunite. Maybe I should pitch the plan to the idiots on HDTV. I'd let them pick up the tab for materials to film me acting like an idiot.
    13000 gal IG Diamond Brite surface. Sta-Rite 37 sq ft System 3 DE w/ torn grids soon to be replaced by a Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter

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    Re: Armor pools

    Working with f/g is an artisan skill. There is a lot more to it than meets the eye.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Armor pools

    Quote Originally Posted by jatkinson

    I had a vinyl pool in the late '70s. The feel under the toes, the wrinkles from the shoddy build and forever looking for that one leak I never found pretty much turned me off for life. And the look of those god awful fiberglass steps made want to fill it in with dirt.
    That was 30 years ago. I know you want something different, but FWIW, a well built vinyl pool is very good. And I agree on those fiberglass steps. While they still have those, you can get options that eliminate that. And, vinyl infinity edge pools look great too.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Armor pools

    Have I missed something, don't like fibreglass steps but do want a fibreglass pool?
    Have an armoured vinyl liner made on site, feels the same as vinyl flooring, no wrinkles and hardwearing non slip fitted to the steps.

    http://www.delifol.com/website/en/englisch/news

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    Re: Armor pools

    Quote Originally Posted by teapot
    Have I missed something, don't like fibreglass steps but do want a fibreglass pool?
    Have an armoured vinyl liner made on site, feels the same as vinyl flooring, no wrinkles and hardwearing non slip fitted to the steps.

    http://www.delifol.com/website/en/englisch/news
    I think you probably did miss something. I believe the OP's comments about fiberglass steps (and my opinion as well) was about the look & design, not the material. Those big white fiberglass steps hanging off the side of a nice looking pool just screams ugly & cheap to me, and brings down the overall look of the pool. With a few exceptions of course, such as the f/g steps that are colored to match the liners. With the hand laid f/g pools, you can incorporate steps, benches and shelfs right into the pool, much like a gunite pool. As far as the feel of vinyl liner feeling exactly the same, I guess it's possible but I haven't felt both so I can't comment on that.

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    Re: Armor pools

    Oh, I dunno, I think a vinyl pool, done right, looks pretty good



    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Armor pools

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Oh, I dunno, I think a vinyl pool, done right, looks pretty good
    Absolutely, I've definitely seen a few that look fantastic, and none of them had the big white afterthought(oh I meant steps)

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