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Thread: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

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    Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    I used to have a DE Filter years ago and it had an air bleed valve to make it easier to prime the pump.

    I now have a Hayward Sand Filter. I was wondering if anybody has had the thought to add an easy open valve between the Multi-port and the Pressure gauge? One that blocked water from going into the pressure gauge while allowing air to escape the system so the pump will prime easily. Then close it off and open the inlet to the Pressure gauge to read filter pressure. I have seen water inside friends Filter Pressure Gauges and known that their pool guy got tried of waiting for the pump to prime after cleaning out the pump basket and backed the gauge out so air could escape, the only problem is that when the gauge is screwed back in to seal the leak, the high pressure forces water inside the gauge.

    Will this work? Has anybody already done this and have a parts list? Is there a better solution? Is there an off the shelf solution?
    Pool #1 IG 24k Diamond Brite plaster with spill-over spa. Jandy Aqua Link RS One Touch with built into pool floor cleaner. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket feeding Hayward top mount Zeosand filter. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket for Spa Jets. Heat Siphon pool heat pump. Dolphin Robotic pool cleaner.

    Pool #2 IG 35K 20X40 Vinyl. Hayward top mount Zeosand filter with Pentair 3 HP IntelliFlo VS+SVRS. Chemical Free pool using Water Doctor Copper Ion Generator, PoolSkim, Polaris 9300 Sport robotic pool cleaner, Heat Siphon pool heat pump, solar blanket, Ameri-Dome 50X30 dome enclosure during Winter.

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    The pressure is no higher when you screw the gauge in than if you left it in. If water is someplace where you can see it on the gauge, it has a problem not related to being screwed in or unscrewed. The gauge is designed to be under water pressure.
    TFP Moderator
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    Ohm_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    You could certainly add a tee fitting before the gauge, with a small valve on the open leg of the tee. You could then just open the valve and allow air (or water) to bleed off.
    [center:1kpalu48]Helpful Links: Pool School | CYA/Chlorine Chart | Pool Calculator[/center:1kpalu48]

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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    The pump should self prime with no air bleed. Any water you see in the guage is from rain water getting in the guage, not from the pool water.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    The pump should self prime with no air bleed. Any water you see in the guage is from rain water getting in the guage, not from the pool water.
    Pool #1 is no problem as the equipment is actually half way below the pool level. Pool #2 has to be 2 inches above the proper level mark on the in-wall skimmer to self prime reliably after emptying the pump basket. I think it is fighting the back air pressure of the filter and the distance from the main drain and skimmer to the pump if I am not mistaken.

    As for my friend's gauge having water inside, it can't be rain water as the equipment is covered by a walled and roofed shed. Trust me its from his pool guy using it as an air bleed port. He put a new gauge on last month with new teflon tape. It was nice and clean. Now it has water in it and there are ribbons of teflon tape hanging down from the gauge being backed out and turned back in.
    Pool #1 IG 24k Diamond Brite plaster with spill-over spa. Jandy Aqua Link RS One Touch with built into pool floor cleaner. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket feeding Hayward top mount Zeosand filter. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket for Spa Jets. Heat Siphon pool heat pump. Dolphin Robotic pool cleaner.

    Pool #2 IG 35K 20X40 Vinyl. Hayward top mount Zeosand filter with Pentair 3 HP IntelliFlo VS+SVRS. Chemical Free pool using Water Doctor Copper Ion Generator, PoolSkim, Polaris 9300 Sport robotic pool cleaner, Heat Siphon pool heat pump, solar blanket, Ameri-Dome 50X30 dome enclosure during Winter.

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    Ohm_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    I agree that the gauge having water in it should not at all be related to removing the gauge, unless your guy's just letting the escaping water spray onto the gauge when he bleeds it. A water pressure gauge is designed to handle water getting into the sensing mechanism (ie., Bourdon tube), but that is contained and will not allow water to escape. If it DOES allows water to escape, then it allows 'pressure' to escape, and is broken - you'd know about that too. Some gauges have liquid in them (often glycerin) to dampen the mechanism, but that's probably not what you have there. Also, since the typical gauge case is not sealed and is open to atmosphere, any water it holds can be mostly drained by loosening the screws in the back of the gauge.
    [center:1kpalu48]Helpful Links: Pool School | CYA/Chlorine Chart | Pool Calculator[/center:1kpalu48]

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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    I am just a little confused reading this thread.

    I virtually always open my bleed air when priming the pump. Once the pump has filled the filter, water will spurt from the back side (where the bleed valve is) of the pressure gauge and I quickly close it and all is well. I doubt much more than a teaspoon of water shoots from the valve before I can get it closed.

    My gauge and valve are located on the top of the filter......is that where this one is?
    Dave S.
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    I am just a little confused reading this thread.

    I virtually always open my bleed air when priming the pump.
    I'm confused too,

    I have a sand filter and a top mount multiport. I dont even think I have an air bleed
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    There are adapters which have the same thread as the pressure gauge, an air bleeder and female threads to accept the pressure gauge. This sounds like what you're looking for. Some are plastic and others are brass. (I wish I could find a part # for you, but a decent plumbing supply store should be able to 'hook you up' with what you want.)

    BTW - water visible in the gauge means that you need to replace it
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Quote Originally Posted by waste


    BTW - water visible in the gauge means that you need to replace it
    Half full of water, sure. A little condensate, eh, not so much.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    I am just a little confused reading this thread.

    I virtually always open my bleed air when priming the pump. Once the pump has filled the filter, water will spurt from the back side (where the bleed valve is) of the pressure gauge and I quickly close it and all is well. I doubt much more than a teaspoon of water shoots from the valve before I can get it closed.

    My gauge and valve are located on the top of the filter......is that where this one is?
    Hi Dave. What is confusing you? I have a Hayward Multi-port top valve on my sand filter that has NO air bleed valve. It only has a pressure gauge for reading the pressure build up in the filter. I used to have a DE filter with an air bleed valve. After seeing my friend's new valve half full of water after the pool guy left, we deduced he was using it to bleed air to prime the pump to shorten his onsite time. So I got the idea to add some plumbing to my gauge port to allow for bleeding air. If it works without water filling the gauge, I will add the same thing to Jim's filter and he can tell the pool guy to stop using the gauge as an air bleed.

    Edit: Found the gauge I was looking for Zero to 30 by one pound increments, guess I needed to post about it first. Now for the air bleed hardware.....
    Pool #1 IG 24k Diamond Brite plaster with spill-over spa. Jandy Aqua Link RS One Touch with built into pool floor cleaner. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket feeding Hayward top mount Zeosand filter. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket for Spa Jets. Heat Siphon pool heat pump. Dolphin Robotic pool cleaner.

    Pool #2 IG 35K 20X40 Vinyl. Hayward top mount Zeosand filter with Pentair 3 HP IntelliFlo VS+SVRS. Chemical Free pool using Water Doctor Copper Ion Generator, PoolSkim, Polaris 9300 Sport robotic pool cleaner, Heat Siphon pool heat pump, solar blanket, Ameri-Dome 50X30 dome enclosure during Winter.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Sounds like all you need is a "street tee" and some sort of gate valve.

    You might find it in a big box hardware store, but not with the usual plumbing stuff - it will likely be an aisle or two away where they keep the brass fittings and hose couplers and other weird stuff. A Mom-n-Pop hardware store, like an Ace hardware, is a good bet. A good auto parts store should have it as well, especially if it's 1/4" pipe thread.

    Let's see if these images will hotlink or not....

    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Hi Dave. What is confusing you?
    I assumed most if not all filters had a bleed air valve as standard equipment.....that's what had me puzzled, but I guess they don't.

    Pentair and others make a "T" fitting wherein the vertical leg of the T screws into the multiport and it then has the bleed on one short end of the T with threads to accept a guage on the other short end. Would that work or am I still missing the point?

    Pentair's part number (I'm sure there are several variations) is PAC-051-2849
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    The ability to relive air from the filter should have little or no effect on the pump priming. The tee that Richard shows above would work well. The pressure gauge can be replaced with a sealed/oil filled gauge which is a little more expensive, but will last many years longer. Hayward makes a plastic air relief valve (DEX2400S) which is used on many filters and the pressure gauge will screw into this valve - around 20 bucks.
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Sounds like all you need is a "street tee" and some sort of gate valve.

    You might find it in a big box hardware store, but not with the usual plumbing stuff - it will likely be an aisle or two away where they keep the brass fittings and hose couplers and other weird stuff. A Mom-n-Pop hardware store, like an Ace hardware, is a good bet. A good auto parts store should have it as well, especially if it's 1/4" pipe thread.

    Let's see if these images will hotlink or not....

    That "street T" looks like just what I need.

    I did find THIS and the only thing missing is the Male threads for the end going to the Multi-port side which could be easily solved by a Male to Male bullet adapter. Or just get a "street T" if it costs about the same and move the gauge and relief valve over to it.

    Thanks for the suggestions everybody!
    Pool #1 IG 24k Diamond Brite plaster with spill-over spa. Jandy Aqua Link RS One Touch with built into pool floor cleaner. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket feeding Hayward top mount Zeosand filter. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket for Spa Jets. Heat Siphon pool heat pump. Dolphin Robotic pool cleaner.

    Pool #2 IG 35K 20X40 Vinyl. Hayward top mount Zeosand filter with Pentair 3 HP IntelliFlo VS+SVRS. Chemical Free pool using Water Doctor Copper Ion Generator, PoolSkim, Polaris 9300 Sport robotic pool cleaner, Heat Siphon pool heat pump, solar blanket, Ameri-Dome 50X30 dome enclosure during Winter.

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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    FWIW, Sand filters don't need the air bled. The water comes from above the sand and is pushed down. Bleeding the air does not increase filtration. Adding a bleeder is wasted $$s.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    FWIW, Sand filters don't need the air bled. The water comes from above the sand and is pushed down. Bleeding the air does not increase filtration. Adding a bleeder is wasted $$s.

    Scott
    Hi Scott. This isn't about Filtration, the filter is filtering fine. This is about the pump priming after the pump basket has been cleaned. It seems the pump is fighting the water level and the back air pressure in the filter. I have noted that several new sand filters have air bleed valves on them. Even the replacement part for my Multi-port Top Valve now comes with an air bleed.

    I have tested this thinking by removing my filter gauge and putting a wingbolt with correct thread and teflon tape in its place. If I back the wingbolt out to let air out until water starts to just start coming out, the pump primes and comes up to full pressure immediately.
    Pool #1 IG 24k Diamond Brite plaster with spill-over spa. Jandy Aqua Link RS One Touch with built into pool floor cleaner. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket feeding Hayward top mount Zeosand filter. Jacuzzi Magnum pump/basket for Spa Jets. Heat Siphon pool heat pump. Dolphin Robotic pool cleaner.

    Pool #2 IG 35K 20X40 Vinyl. Hayward top mount Zeosand filter with Pentair 3 HP IntelliFlo VS+SVRS. Chemical Free pool using Water Doctor Copper Ion Generator, PoolSkim, Polaris 9300 Sport robotic pool cleaner, Heat Siphon pool heat pump, solar blanket, Ameri-Dome 50X30 dome enclosure during Winter.

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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Pentair's have had them for quite some time. Not needed. Air compresses on the way out of the pump. Since the returns are open, once the pressure is 1 lb. greater than the built up air pressure, the air heads out the returns. The short time that it takes for sufficient pressure to evacuate the air doesn't hurt anything. The difference in priming time is not that great. The biggest strain is getting the water moving as the laws of inertia and the forces that resist it are more of an impact. Once the air is gone, those forces are still in play. A system that is stopped but primed still has to get the momentum of the flow up to it's maximum speed for the energy applied.

    With DE and cartridges, air can reduce the available filtering surface since they are vertical, not horizontal.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Pentair has an air bleed that can be a gage Tee, the one used on the TR60. It is 1/4" NPT, so could probably be threaded into most standard gage ports with the use of a 1/4" NPT nipple. I wouldn't recommend using any filter that doesn't have an external (AND internal) air bleed. If you do use an adapter to thread it in, make sure that it is actually at the highest part of the system (not all gage ports are). Personally, I would recommend replacing the filter, but I'm biased. . .
    In-ground Filters Engineer
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    Re: Adding Air Bleed Valve on Sand Filter that doesn't have one

    Quote Originally Posted by BriceJohnson
    Personally, I would recommend replacing the filter, but I'm biased. . .
    I'm shocked
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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