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Thread: Considering in Ground Vinyl

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    Considering in Ground Vinyl

    I am new to this, education is welcome. We are considering an in ground vinyl pool. I am in Orange county, CA, and have looked at the Secard pool. Are there others to consider? Is this a reputable company? Are their Pitfalls I need to be aware of?

    Thanks!
    Dan
    11000 gal IG pool, pebbletec surface, Cartridge filter, In Floor cleaner

  2. Back To Top    #2
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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    I was at Mission Pools (in Escondido, CA) at the time that they were offering vinyl liner pools as an option to their gunite pools. In typical Mission fashion, they did a first class job of installation, and built a great product. However, they quickly saw the "issues" of these pools, and, if I remember correctly, have "converted" all of them to gunite since. Too many issues with bubbles under the liner, eroding liners above the waterline, etc.

    I don't know what the cost difference is between the two, but from what I observed at Mission, and what I've seen (rarely) since of vinyl liner pools, I would not go that route.

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    Cant tell you anything about that company since i'm in Massachusetts. You will find a big variety of opinions on TFP on just about everything under the sun, including pool types. A lot of the opinions will be based on what the particular person has in terms of pool types and what they are familiar with. Every pool type has its pluses and minuses. I like both vinyl and gunite pools, i'm not so big on fiberglass. Simicrintz is not big on any type of pool unless it's gunite because its what he knows. Some of the issues he brings up with vinyl pools are absolutely true, but it also depends on the installer. Lots of issues with gunite construction as well. In fact, from what i've seen at TFP, there are more problem areas of construction with gunite than with vinyl, overall. But again, it depends on the installer. In California, you will find a lot more gunite than vinyl, hence Simi's like for that type of pool. In contrast, you will not find a lot of gunite in the Northeast where I am, it's vinyl at least 10:1. Do your due diligence and ask questions!
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    I guess it just boils down to expectations, and options. I admit to not knowing much about above ground, vinyl or fibreglas pools, but I do run in to all of them occasionally. And, most of the problems that I see with gunite pools are poor construction practices as opposed to inherent issues with the gunite itself.

    All variations have their own potential issues. Vinyl needs to be replaced every so often, fibrgelas fades and can delaminate and plaster needs to be redone every ten years or so. I just like the unlimited potential to create any size, shape, elevation, features, etc. that come with gunite pools.

    As for bk and I, we don't get along, so anything that he says I will disagree with and anything I say he will disagree with It's a good thing we live across the Country from each other or it might really be ugly (Just messin' with you, bk!).

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by simicrintz

    As for bk and I, we don't get along, so anything that he says I will disagree with and anything I say he will disagree with It's a good thing we live across the Country from each other or it might really be ugly (Just messin' with you, bk!).
    He's just jokin'.

    Besides Bruce, it's "bk and ME don't get along", not I. Jeez
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    Dan, welcome to TFP!!

    Don't mind the banter betwixt Bruce and bk, they're both good guys and, like everyone else here want you to get the best pool for your needs and intended use

    I'll tell you that 10 years ago, I was straight in line with Bruce's opinion of liner pools, having worked for 7 years with a company in Va. that primarily installed shotcrete pools - liner pools were treated like 'red haired stepchildren' and didn't get the due diligence they needed This is NOT to say that we intentionally built substandard liner pools, we just didn't specialize in them

    When I moved to Ct. 10 years ago, I was lucky enough to hook up with a company that specialized in IG liner pools - the difference was AMAZING! These guys could make a liner pool sing, dance and probably reach a fixed orbit (bk - ).

    There may well be a regional difference in how well a liner pool will hold up, here on the east coast there aren't issues that can't be prevented during the building process. Cali may have soil, or other issues, that I don't know about.

    If a liner pool is what you want, I'd talk to a local company that specializes in them, then run what they say by us so we can better advise.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    Thanks for all the feedback...

    I was by the local Secard Pool dealer, and they have a nice pool, but then, the pools they have on site will be nice, won't they. I can't find many reviews, except on the websites for ticked off customers, and then they will all be bad there anyway.

    I may ask for references, but then they will only give me who they know are happy too. I was hoping soemone here may know them, but it sounds like many here are from the East?

    BTW,,,I can get sarcastic myself, so I enjoy the banter
    11000 gal IG pool, pebbletec surface, Cartridge filter, In Floor cleaner

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    I grew up in Northen California where several of my friends had vinyl in ground pools that they had trouble free for years. And this was back in the late 70s and through the 80s. I want to go this direction if I can confirm I am dealing with good people.

    What is the thickness of vinyls I should look towards? I know they have different grades. Or is it better to have a pool shipped in from another company, and have it installed? how do you find an installer?
    11000 gal IG pool, pebbletec surface, Cartridge filter, In Floor cleaner

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    Re: vinyl thickness-

    The standard is 20+ mil (*) - many manufacturers will go with 20 mil walls and 25 - 28 mil for the floor. From what I've read, the heavier thickness on the floor is either ~useless or a PITA, because it doesn't stretch in as easily and can lead to wrinkles (I never had much trouble getting the thicker floors in, unless the day was cold and cloudy )

    20 mil throughout should be sufficient, though I would go with a thicker liner on the treads of stairs and pad behind the liner there.

    A few quick tips on not having to patch the liner:

    1) Keep something attached to the pool pole at all times - either the skimmer net, the brush or the vac head - I can't tell you how many holes I've had to patch because an empty pool pole went into the pool

    2) NO GLASS around the pool! Not even a glass topped table, they can blow into the pool and shatter (The same goes for any sharp objects)

    3) Critters really shouldn't use a liner pool However, if you have dogs, or such, that will be enjoying the pool with you (or may take an accidental dip), make sure they have a safe way out and know how to use it! (AnnaK has a liner pool that she has 'given over' to her dogs and hasn't had an issue)



    * BEWARE the 'mil' vs. 'gauge' scam! Some liner manufacturers use the term 'gauge' ~interchangeably with 'mil' - in this context, gauge is a lot thinner than mil.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    We are looking to go with a 14 x 20 and have the option of 20 or 28 (+350) mil liner. The options are limited in the 28 mil, and the color and pattern we like is 20...Worth the extra $ to go with 28 or no?

    How big of a pump? The pump comes with only a 1 year warranty.

    Next, we have the options of going with the standard 4 foot consistent depth, or for an extra $750 we could go deeper or have it go from 4 to 6 feet. Will I regret going with a consistent 4 feet? My kids are 7 and 11, and are 5ft and 4 ft tall. Doesn't everyone always hang out in the shallow end anyway?

    Thanks for the advice...

    Dan
    11000 gal IG pool, pebbletec surface, Cartridge filter, In Floor cleaner

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    I have 9 yr old twins and they are always asking why we don't have a deep end . I can't keep them out of my SIL's pool (8ft deep end w/diving board). 6ft is not safe for diving, so unless you can go to at least 8ft, you may want to just stick with 4ft, perhaps 4.5ft throughout I know I wish my pool was about 6-12 inches deeper, but I'm 6ft tall and have about 46" of water depth in my AGP. Hope this helps you
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    I'd do the 20 mil liner if you like the options better. The 28 is obviously thicker, but my initial research on everything said the 28 was not all that much better and the lifetime of the liner wasnt that much better than a 20.

    I do question the size of the pool, though. I hesitate to bring it up, but 14x20 is really not all that big. Is it cost or size of the yard that dictate the size of the pool?

    Edit: dman just posted before I did so i'll add a little. If you go with a pool thats 20 feet long, you dont want a deep end. If you did, it would basically have to start falling as soon as you got into the pool.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  13. Back To Top    #13
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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    I have to agree with bk on the size and depth. In gunite (shotcrete) pools, I like to use a ratio of falling one foot of water depth in no less than 3 feet of length. If I was building a pool 3'6" to 8'6" deep, for example, I would want 15' of transition from the shallow end to the deep end. Add 8' of shallow and deep at the ends (again, for example) and I need a pool that is going to be about 31' long.

    As a self admitted no nothing about vinyl pools, I will ask this question: Can you guys build sport pools out of vinyl? I like the shallow-deep-shallow pool (sport pool) configuration, and that is what gets built here the most. This allows for two shallow ends (easy to play volleyball, toss a ball back and forth, etc.) and makes for a deep center (mine happens to be 7' deep in the center, and we dive off of rocks and walls into that all the time). Obviously that requires two transitions, and a larger pool, but I don't know if it is possible with vinyl, or something you would even consider.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    To answer bruce's question, yes u can build a sport pool with vinyl, no problem.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    Hi guys

    (bk - congrats on 1400 well written posts! )

    Bruce, You can do almost everything with a liner pool that you can do with a 'crete' pool Negative edges, sunning decks, irregular shapes, etc. are possible for a good liner pool company (paired with a good panel manufacturer ). The IG liner company I worked for in Ct. usually installed 'sport pools' - however, we usually had them as 3 tiered (shallow [3'], middle [4 - 5'], and deep [5.5 - 6.5'] - though we did do a couple 3 - 6 -3') The folks who make the liners can cut them to ~ anything you can imagine.

    Dan, bk said it a little more clearly than I did, 20 mil throughout the pool is fine I think you're correct in that most folks enjoying a pool are either swimming laps or standing around - as such, I would have a deeper end for the taller folks. BUT... some folks absolutely require a diving area - especially the kids Without a longer pool, you can't make that happen in your pool By law, you need a 4' deep end wall, at least 6' of 8' bottom, and 13' of slope from the shallow end floor (3') to the bottom pad. At this point, we've already got 23', with no shallow end floor - if you want a diving pool, you've got to extend the pool ~10'

    However, You can easily install a slide into ~5' of water - just an option to keep the kids happy
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by simicrintz
    I have to agree with bk on the size and depth. In gunite (shotcrete) pools, I like to use a ratio of falling one foot of water depth in no less than 3 feet of length. If I was building a pool 3'6" to 8'6" deep, for example, I would want 15' of transition from the shallow end to the deep end. Add 8' of shallow and deep at the ends (again, for example) and I need a pool that is going to be about 31' long.

    As a self admitted no nothing about vinyl pools, I will ask this question: Can you guys build sport pools out of vinyl? I like the shallow-deep-shallow pool (sport pool) configuration, and that is what gets built here the most. This allows for two shallow ends (easy to play volleyball, toss a ball back and forth, etc.) and makes for a deep center (mine happens to be 7' deep in the center, and we dive off of rocks and walls into that all the time). Obviously that requires two transitions, and a larger pool, but I don't know if it is possible with vinyl, or something you would even consider.
    I have a 40x20 Sports pool with a vinyl liner with a 8 foot deep middle, so yes you can. It is 3 tiered going from 3 to 4 to 8
    Kurt R
    35900 gal. 20x40 Inground, Vinyl Liner with Deep End in the Middle, Roman Stairs on Both Ends
    Sta Rite Sys 3, Hayward 1.5 Super Pump, Aqua Heat Heat Pump, Paramount in Floor, BBB

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    How about the armoured liner at 1.5mm and re-inforced, welded on site and really tough?

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    The discussion is helping a bunch. I like the "sport" pool with the deeper end in the middle. I will inquire about that.

    the size we are looking at is a yard limitation thing. The vinyl is the cost savings thing. 14x20 is kinda square looking, so I was thinking of going 20x12 for looks only. Opinions on this?

    20 foot is as big as I can go in one direction, and 18 feet is the longest in the other direction.

    We are definatly considering a slide option.

    Dan
    11000 gal IG pool, pebbletec surface, Cartridge filter, In Floor cleaner

  19. Back To Top    #19
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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    I guess when I finally move out of California I'll have to learn more about them dang burned vinyl pools y'all build elsewhere! Looks like they are pretty flexible from the few that I have run up against in the past.

    See, you can teach an old dog new tricks

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    Re: Considering in Ground Vinyl

    One more thing, just to stir the pot! Once I do move and I learn to build those vinyl pools, I'm still using rigid PVC Ain't none of you talkin' me outta that

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