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Thread: Is a Special Glue Required

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    Is a Special Glue Required

    I have a Waterway pump and sand filter. The pump and sand filter are connected by a flexible hose. Before TFP I had hooked up a puck chlorinator and to do so had inserted a PVC T into the flexible hose. I used regular PVC glue, but had a hard time getting it to seal. The joints have started leaking. Does this type of flexible hose to PVC require a special type of glue? My plan is to put glue on the outside of the joints to try to stop the leak. Any other recommendations on how to stop the leak at the joints?

    I have considered replacing the flexible hose with Schedule 40 PVC, but regular male and female pvc connectors do not screw onto and into the pump and filter. Does Waterway use a special size or thread on these connections and if so are they available?

    Thanks.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    No special glue is required for flex PVC. You use the same stuff as for rigid. You have to use cleaner/primer on it just like you do for the rigid, however. Did you prime and clean the PVC when you added the Tee?

    As far as a fix, you should really replumb it. Just putting glue on the outside is not a fix and most likely would not hold over time.
    I'm not sure what you mean by regular PVC connectors do not screw into/onto the pump and filter. They should accept 1.5 inch or 2 inch fittings. Are the connections threaded or slip joint? The connections to the pump and filter should accept a threaded male adaptor. A couple of pictures would really help.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Some fittings are CPVC, not PVC - not sure if this is your case. Clear PVC glue is not recommended on CPVC fittings and take a lot longer to dry and can leak later (the bond is not that great). I know the waterway filters use CPVC, but this isn't where or what you are describing. You might want to consider a multi-purpose glue. I use "Red Hot" (brand) glue, and really like it.
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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    I agree with the need to re-plumb. I would like to do this in Schedule 40 PVC, but as I said I cannot get the PVC screw on connectors to fit the pump and filter. The one on the pump measures 2" but when I try to screw a 2" pvc female threaded to slip connector it will not screw down. It is either a little big or the threads are not compatible. The same thing happens on the filter 1.5" connection. If I can't find the proper connectors would silicone or some other sealer work better than just putting some pvc glue around the T joints? Here are some photos:
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    I just had a thought. While the regular PVC threaded to slip connector will not screw down, would half of a threaded union work? Is there a difference?

    OK, I answered this question. I found a union and the half is way too big. So I am back to does WaterWay use a special connector or am I doing something wrong? The other option is too seal the joints of the T and the flexible hose, but what with?
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    I'm still a little confused. Seems like you have 2 issues that are not related.

    1) You have a leak around the Tee fitting where the flex goes into the fitting. This is a simple glued joint and not a union fitting. This is unrelated to the union issue you describe, correct?

    This is most likely caused by not properly cleaning and priming the pipe and fitting before glueing. Did you use cleaner and primer before glueing?


    2) I'm still unsure here too. Are you saying that the black unions you show in the picture are leaking around the threads? 2 inch is 2 inch so i'm not sure whats going on here. Did you use any teflon tape or pipie dope before you screwed on the unions? Also, these look like ABS fittings and not PVC. Are you sure they are PVC and not ABS or even CPVC? If the male threads on the filter/pump are of one type of plastic and the female unions are of another, they might not fit as well. I'm just guessing here. Also, did you buy the male and female pieces together, or were the male ends already there? Did this work at one time?
    Sorry for all the questions, but sometimes it takes a bit to go back and forth to try and understand just what the issues are. Be patient
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Each mfg has proprietary unions for their equipment. The fittings you are looking for will need to come from Waterway, since that is who made the pump & filter. They should be pretty easy to find, if you know the model of your pump and filter. It's possible that there may be internal threads on the pump that a standard male adapter will thread into, but I'm not sure if Waterway has that option. If inside the pump fittings has no threads, you'll have to use the proprietary unions. The filter valve should have standard size threads. Looking at the picture of the filter, I can't tell if they glued the fitting into the valve or not, so you may be stuck finding the correct union for that.

    Many unions are made with slip 1.5" inside and slip 2" outside - or perhaps 2" inside and 2.5" outside. If you cut the flex pipe where it meets the union, you can likely find the correct size standard pvc slip fitting to glue onto the outside of the pump union. This is not ideal, as the remaining flex glued inside will restrict your water flow a bit, but if you can't find the Waterway unions, it's another option.
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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    I've done ton of plumbing and I've never heard of "proprietary" unions. Stranger things have happened i guess. But you do need matched male and female ends. Looks like a standard multiport valve to me. You should be able to screw out the male end from the multiport and buy a male/female set from Lowes and be good to go. My Hayward multiport and pump worked just fine with Lowes stuff. I'm like Ranger, i cant tell if they glued the male end into the multiport or not. Looks like pipe dope to me.
    Not sure about the pump. What was there before?
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    By proprietary, I mean that every manufacturer who supplies unions with a pump or filter, uses a different union. For example, a Hayward cartridge filter union will not fit a Pentair cartridge filter union, nor a Jandy cartridge filter union. The union on a Waterway pump will not fit the threads on a Hayward pump. This would not be the case for products which are not sold with unions in the box, such as Whisperflo, Super II, Challenger, etc. These pumps do have standard female threads which will accept standard pvc fittings. However, Waterway pumps such as the one shown, Tristar, Northstar, etc., do have proprietary unions and will not interchange - one brand to another.
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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Thanks for the questions and helping me sort this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    I'm still a little confused. Seems like you have 2 issues that are not related.

    Agree

    1) You have a leak around the Tee fitting where the flex goes into the fitting. This is a simple glued joint and not a union fitting. This is unrelated to the union issue you describe, correct? Yes unrelated. This is the main problem. I see two solutions. First, seal the leak. Second is replace the flexible with PVC.

    This is most likely caused by not properly cleaning and priming the pipe and fitting before gluing. Did you use cleaner and primer before gluing? Yes I did prime and used regular clear PVC glue that I got from home depot. I recall it required me to hold it a long time - not like regular pvc - to get it to stick. It did not leak until yesterday when I took the hose off the pump and filter to do some maintenance. When I put it back on I am getting a drip out of one of the joints between the T and the hose.


    2) I'm still unsure here too. Are you saying that the black unions you show in the picture are leaking around the threads? No they are not leaking. I am saying that they are glued to the flexible hose so I can not use them with regular pvc to replace the hose. 2 inch is 2 inch so i'm not sure whats going on here. Did you use any teflon tape or pipie dope before you screwed on the unions? No i did not use tape, but they are not leaking. They have a plastic washer that seals them. Also, these look like ABS fittings and not PVC. Are you sure they are PVC and not ABS or even CPVC? If the male threads on the filter/pump are of one type of plastic and the female unions are of another, they might not fit as well. I do not know what the unions or the flexible hose is made of. I found a WaterWay replacement hose with union fittings online, but it is $50 and if I am going to replace the hose I would prefer to use Schedule 40 pvc it I can find replacement unions. I'm just guessing here. Also, did you buy the male and female pieces together, or were the male ends already there? Did this work at one time? Yes it all worked fine.
    Sorry for all the questions, but sometimes it takes a bit to go back and forth to try and understand just what the issues are. Be patient
    To sum up I have two issues. One is how to fix the leak without replacing the hose and the other if I replace the hose what type of union or connector do I use?

    I hope this clarifies my questions. Thanks for your patience and if I am still not clear keep asking.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Ranger, let me see if I understand correctly. If I want to replace the flexible hose with Schedule 40 PVC I will have to get a new union for the pump from Waterway and depending on whether the fitting at the filter is glued or screwed in I may have to do the same for the filter. Is this correct? You also suggested I could cut the flexible a little above where it is glued to the union and then glue schedule 40 to the flexible. Is this correct?

    Forgetting about replacing the flexible for now, do you have a suggestion of how I can seal the joint between the pvc T and the flexible to stop the drip? Do you know what material WaterWay uses for the flexible hose in the picture?

    Thanks for sharing your expertise and experience.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Ok, I think i got it now. I misunderstood you and thought the unions were leaking to.

    Ok, you have a couple options.

    1) The best option would be to get the female union that fits the Waterway pump. The unions on the multiport should be interchangeable with anything. Just screw out the male end from the multiport and buy a good quality one from Lowes/HD provided the male end isnt glued in (it shouldnt be). Once you have the unions, you can plumb it back in with good flex (i.e tigerflex) or with rigid.

    2) you can cut the unions off and leave 2 inches or so of flex sticking off the end. Then, get 2 PVC couplings, glue those on the end of the flex, and re-plumb with rigid or tiger flex.

    Your original problem of the leaking Tee has to do with the cleaning/priming. You have to make sure it is REALLY cleaned and primed. Use Oatay glue and primer for PVC. The other issue is hose that came with the setup. All flex is not created equal. That dosnt look like tiger flex. Good flex will glue up just like rigid. If it were me, id get the new unions and replumb it.

    To answer your question about trying to seal the Tee. Dont bother, really. The proper fix is to redo it. You will never get it to seal for the long term, if ever, no matter what you try.

    Ranger: I get what your saying now. Just didnt sink in the 1st time you posted.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Larry,

    I agree with bk406's post above. There is no effective way of fixing a leaking glue joint, other than replacing the joint. Waterway does not make the flex pipe, so they won't have a fix for it. Many (not all) people in our industry prefer the rigid pvc as opposed to the flexible pvc. Rigid costs less, is more commonly availalbe, and seems to be more durable over time. In my opinion, it's easier to get good glue joints with rigid as well. My experience with the flex is that you must use both the glue and primer, but you should let it sit unpressurized for much longer - I recommend a full 24 hours on flex - while with rigid pvc in moderate air temp, you can usually get a very strong bond in an hour or two. The glue mfg usually recommends 24 hours for full cure. ABS plastic is different and has different requirements. While you can get regular pvc glue to work, you should be able to find ABS glue at home depot. Read the directions on the container & follow carefully.
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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Thanks for all the help. I will try to find the pump union and proceed from there.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Make sure you can screw out the male end from the multiport. If you cant, you will need another waterway female end.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Thanks BK. Will do. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

  17. Back To Top    #17
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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Happy turkey day everyone.

    Larry...one other probable cause of the leak on that T fitting is that it does not look like a schedule 40 fitting, rather standard waste pipe fittings. Schedule 40 fittings have about 1" of slip fitting vs the ones pictured apear to be about 0.5" at best. Could just be the picture, but I think I see another such fitting in the 2nd pic as well...looks like a sweeping 90deg elbow, which does not come in schedule 40.

    I would imagine that specific hose with the leak has the most amount of pressure put on it between the pump and the filter, so you will want to use sch 40. Also if you think 1/2 a union may solve your issue HD and lowes sell unions in various sizes 1.5", 2", etc.

    Hope this helps although you've gotten great advice thus far.
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  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Looks like a standard Tee to me. Standard waste/sewer pipe fittings are actually schedule 40.
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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    I don't recall when I bought the T how much depth it had. It is a T with two slip joints and one threaded joint. The sweep elbow which did have only about .5 inch of slip. I used it to help maintain the pressure as opposed to a regular 90 degree turn. I just put that on two days ago and in my test run yesterday it did not leak. Hopefully it will be fine, but should it develop a leak then I will know I need to go to the regular 90 degree elbow with the 1.25' slip area. Thanks for pointing that out Dmandb2b. I did not know there was a difference and didn't notice it until I was installing the elbow.

    I checked the unions at HD and for the 1.5 pipe the half is too large.

    As a temporary fix I put some JBWeld on the joints to see if that will stop the drip until I can find the correct union from WaterWay.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Is a Special Glue Required

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Looks like a standard Tee to me. Standard waste/sewer pipe fittings are actually schedule 40.
    BK, I should clarify....It appears to be a DWV type fitting. It may be schedule 40 as you call it, but DWV fittings are only to be used for drain/waste/vent applications which are open to the atmosphere and not pressurized. The main difference between DWV fittings and what I call "schedule 40" fittings are the amount of pipe the slip fittings contact with. The schedule 40s overlap around 1-1.5" of pipe versus around 1/2-3/4" with DWV fittings. Given I'm not as experienced in plumbing, feel free to correct my lingo if it is incorrect, but there is quite a difference between fittings rated for pressure applications, vs fittings designed for drain/waste/vent applications only.

    DWV fittings may last a while or never fail, but regardless, I pointing it out to Larry if he wants to play it safe.
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