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Thread: Water is stlll cloudy

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    Water is stlll cloudy

    My pool was green. After following the green algae protocol, my pool had turned blue. I still have high level of chlorine and the pump is still running at least 16 hours a day. The water is blue but is cloudy. What should I do?

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    You should run your pump 24hours a day. It should clear in a couple of all day running. If it doesn't you could try some clarifier or flocculent
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Can you post your test results?
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Bama Rambler is correct. Your filter needs to do its' job and clear that water for you. You can use different aids to speed up the process like a clarifier. You can also use some filter enhancers to help your filter pick up finer particles. Running your pump and filter 24 hours until is clear is the way to go.

    If you have an inground pool, make sure you have your bottom drain turned on to help get the water from the bottom into your filter.
    Matt Giovanisci

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    While the advice above is likely correct, posting test results is the first step. "high levels of chlorine" is a very incomplete picture.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by swimu
    If you have an inground pool, make sure you have your bottom drain turned on to help get the water from the bottom into your filter.
    Just an FYI, not all IG pools have a bottom drain. Some have a side wall suction in the deep end, and some poorly built (IMO) have no main at all.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    I took the water to the pool Co. and they said they cannot test it due to the high FC level. I did the best myself and here are the numbers.

    FC 125 (I did not know pool water will turn clear if I did not put in enough R-870 powder. I thought the FC was too low so I kept adding bleach until I posted a forum the other day. I stopped adding more bleach and took out the floater)
    PH 7.2-7.5
    TA 300
    CYA 100
    CH 400 (the water never turned blue as per instruction. It turned clear that was when I stopped)

    With this high FC level, should I be concerned (I have not been using the pool since I purchased the house in July)? I am not sure how to find out about a bottom drain. I do have a suction that has not been on due to the green pool (I use the skimmer for the last 2 weeks). Should I start using the suction rather than the skimmer?

    As you can see that I am a novice pool person but am learning. My pool is about 25,000 gallon, Vinyl, with a sand filter (Waterco).

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    FC of 125 does not sound right, that would be about 50 gallons of 6% bleach. Is it 12.5? How much bleach did you put in over what time?
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    I'm guessing you added 125 drops of R-0871 reagent before the sample turned clear. If that was a 10 ml sample, then this is around 62 ppm FC since each drop represents 0.5 ppm. If you used a 25 ml sample size, then this is 25 ppm FC since each drop represents 0.2 ppm.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Hello,
    I am having the same problem. I have fought off the Louisiana swamp (pretty
    sure I saw a gator or two in there). But, I have not been able to regain crystal clear
    water. I may have overchlorinated during my battle, but my numbers appear to be good now:
    CYA 30
    FC 3.5
    pH 7.5
    Salinity 2500 (low)
    TA 100
    I live in Falls Church, VA and it is past time to close the pool, but I am afraid to
    close it in its current condition for fear of what it will look like when I open it.
    The pool is a relatively constant approx 4' deep, except for the 3.5' deep sitting area
    (which is the only place I can see the bottom, but just barely).
    I have just finally last month gotten the Circupool RJ45 SWCG up and running.
    This was concurrent with my battle with the green monster, but after it was no longer
    green. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have had the filter running
    24/7 for about three weeks now.
    Thanks again. Mule
    Dark plaster in-ground, 25K gallons, Triton II sand fliter, Teledyne Laars Series 2 ESG heater, Polaris 280 cleaner,
    Circupool RJ45 SWCG, one skimmer doesn't work (any suggestions for snaking this or determining why it doesn't
    work?), using 12mil bubble wrap solar cover, Marquis 660 hot tub using liquid bleach.

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Thanks for this thread, could someone make a recommendation about:
    - clarifier: what is a good product?
    - flocculent: same question?
    - filter enhancer: any suggestion? (once I tried this fibrous stuff from Leslie's, it didn't seem to do anything).

    Thanks!
    Roland
    28,000 gals, In Ground / Plaster, spa, cartridge filter (STA-RITE System:3, 300 sq.ft., 100 GPM max flow rate), 2 HP pump motor

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    I'm a little bias, but I think that Bioguard's Polysheen Blue is the best clarifier I have ever used.
    As far as flocculant, I don't prefer one over another. I have used 3 or 4 different brands and they all gave the same result. I have used Bioguard (of course) and a brand called Pool Protector, which I believe was made by http://www.njonas.com/

    Honestly, when it came to filter enhancers, I never really used them. However, in a sand filter I have used a small cup of DE, but I've been told that I really shouldn't do that. Maybe someone can enlighten me on that one.
    Matt Giovanisci

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    I was reading a bit, found this one: Super Floc Clarifier
    http://www.intheswim.com/Pool-Chemic...ifier/#reviews
    The reviews are unbelievably positive, all about the cloudiness, if the reviews are correct, then this one is tempting since cloudiness is now the problem in my pool, filter doesn't take it out very efficiently.

    Roland
    28,000 gals, In Ground / Plaster, spa, cartridge filter (STA-RITE System:3, 300 sq.ft., 100 GPM max flow rate), 2 HP pump motor

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Well... what floc does is sink everything to the bottom which forces you to vacuum it out. A clarifier like Polysheen Blue, brings those cloudy particles together to make the particle bigger so that your filter will be able to snag it. Filter enhancers also help to snag smaller particles.

    Sand filters, in my opinion, are the weakest at catching smaller particles, which is why having a filter enhancer is good to help clear up a cloudy pool. Floc for a cloudy pool works, but it's a lot of work for you, instead of just having your filter do its job.
    Matt Giovanisci

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Ok, lets just take a step back for a minute and address these issues separately.

    Shufen first.

    We still really dont know whats going on with your FC level. I suspect Chem Geek is correct and you counted each drop as an FC ppm. If he's correct, you certainly shocked it to a high level, but i'm not sure you finished the process. Your CYA level is measured at 100 ppm, but it's most likely higher than that, there's no way to know. Your shock level is based on the CYA level, so without a good CYA number, we really dont know what it is. Until you drain some water and get your CYA to a manageable level, you will continue to have problems.

    Mule;

    How are you testng your water? I really suggest getting a good test kit like those recommended at TFP. Your CYA level is 30? How was that measured? If it truly is 30 ppm, an FC of 3.5 is not shock level. Your shock level is 12 ppm.

    Now, what about all this back and forth about floc, clarifier, etc. All this stuff is useless if you still have active algea, period. You have to shock the pool properly, pass the overnight chlorine loss test, and your pool will clear, I promise. Go back and re-read pool school and read it again until you are thoroughly familiar with it. The most important 2 things here is that the CYA is at a mangagable level and you keep the FC at shock level until you pass the overnight loss test. Adding a little chlorine here and there will not clear the pool. You MUST hold the FC at that shock level until you have <0.5 ppm FC loss overnight. Measure the FC an hour or so after the last chlorine addition at night. The next morning, before the sun hits the pool, measure it again. If you lost more than 1 ppm, you not done. Bring the FC back up to shock level and hold it there until you pass the O/N loss test.

    As I said above, all this extra "stuff" in the word will not help until the algea is gone. Floc will drop the crud to the bottom, thats what its designed to do. But, it wont kill the algea.
    That being said, there MAY be an occasion to use a clarifier. I would not use floc, ever. It makes a big giant mess and can be a bigger mess to get rid of than the dead algea. If you want to use anything, use a clarifier. Basically, there are two types. One is a synthetic polymer. They work pretty well. BE WARNED. If you over dose, it can casue everything to become whats called a colliodal suspension. This will be a bigger mess and it is REALLY hard to clean up.
    The second kind is a natural clarifier. It contains basically ground up chiten. It works the same as the synthetic, but you really cant over dose it, or so they say (I'd still be careful).

    Swimu, I know your trying to help, but these chemicals you are advocating to help these fine folks get rid of their algea problem is really not helping them all that much. I'm going to be pretty blunt. Your advice is not consistent with what is taught at TFP. I know you can figure all this out and learn the methods taught here. Read though pool school a few more times and I think you will find the methods here are sound.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Hi bk406

    Thank you for elaborating and providing some more clarification. I promise to re-read pool school again.

    The difficulty I have is with your statement "You have to shock the pool properly, pass the overnight chlorine loss test, and your pool will clear, I promise". Perhaps that is correct, but honestly I have not seen any evidence that suggests this will come true in my case (only testimony). My pool has been shocked and 24 hour filtering for about a week now, I guarantee all the algae is dead now for several days. But it remains really cloudy, can't even see the bottom in the shallow end. And when I vacuum, I can see particles come back into the pool through the return lines; a nice cloudy flow coming back in. So the evidence in my case suggest that running the filter for the next few days or weeks will not clear up the pool. I provided pictures here from my post yesterday http://www.troublefreepool.com/holy-...t27715-20.html

    Bruce was kind enough to come over and help clean and inspect the cartridges. There appears to be no problem with them (Thanks again Bruce!).

    So one thing that would help is if someone could provide the science of how simply continue shocking under TFP methods would affect this particle matter that won't filter out. I haven't seen that yet. On the other hand using some clarifiers or flocculants seems to make sense, there is evidence in my case that perhaps these fine cloud particles might cling together and thus become candidates for getting caught in the filter rather than passing through it.

    I know it is TFP blasphemy, but I just got back from Leslies! (Oh horrors, I know I am in trouble now). I am going to try "pool first aid" from http://naturalchemistry.com/pool_spa...rst_aid_1.html. For $25 I can try something that is associated with evidence that it will help to clear the dead algea out vs. about $15+ a day to keep the pump running. I'll report back --- and again I am very thankful for you and everyone helping here in TFP, but after much reading, trying, and following directions there has never yet been a path under the TFP methods that suggest the cloudiness in my pool is can be removed cost effectively.

    Roland
    28,000 gals, In Ground / Plaster, spa, cartridge filter (STA-RITE System:3, 300 sq.ft., 100 GPM max flow rate), 2 HP pump motor

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by ItGetsGreen

    And when I vacuum, I can see particles come back into the pool through the return lines; a nice cloudy flow coming back in.
    There is your problem right there. Your filter is not working properly. When the water comes back out of the filter into the pool, it should be clean. So...you can add all the floc and clarifier you want and it will still do no good. You still have to remove the clump particulates. If the filter isnt doing its job, it doesnt matter WHAT its trying to filter. Sure, adding the floc WILL drop the crud to the bottom, but until you get your filter working, your pool will stay cloudy.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Roland,

    Have you confirmed you were done shocking? Did you pass the overnight FC loss test? If you did then you can assume the algae is dead, but then you have a filter issue, as BK mentioned. If your looking for evidence of whether our crazy bleach method works, take the time to read through the past threads and some of the ugly mosquito pits we've helped clean up. Have you used your Taylor test kit yet?

    You may choose to purchase any proven wonder product you wish, but they are not needed.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    yes, thanks, I suspected the cartridge filters are bad when I joined here a week ago. Therefore I posted my problem/question thread in the Pumps/Filters section of the forum. But:
    - the suggestions I got in response was something like "your filters may not be bad, follow the BBB/TFP methods and your pool will clearup".
    - Bruce came over we inspected the cartridges, no holes, no tears. I add a little DE to the filter and the cartridges hold the DE, it is caked on the cartridge material. And continued filter raises the filter pressure suggesting they are at least partly working, but may not capture the fine material. And my understanding is that none of the cartridge filters capture the really fine material, therefore pursuing the direction of flocculants, etc. Again I am thankful for all the advice, and felt it was a very promising direction -- any other places I asked simply said to buy new cartridges every 2-3 year, or every 6-7 years.

    The whole thing surface from my question about continuing with cartridge filters. In the 90s had a DE filter, and when I lost control of the pool a couple of times then: shocked everything, cleaned the grids, new DE, and the water came back crystal clear. That isn't happening with the cartridge filters, so I thought I would follow the TFP methods since apparently it always works. And I was hoping it would lead me to the root cause of this problem, why the cartridges with a little added DE can't return clear water when my old DE filter could. If I can figure that out, then I can make a better decision if I should continue try to clean the water with existing cartridges, buy new cartridges, or convert to a DE filter. We were trying to avoid the rather large cost of new cartridges if they aren't really needed.

    Roland
    28,000 gals, In Ground / Plaster, spa, cartridge filter (STA-RITE System:3, 300 sq.ft., 100 GPM max flow rate), 2 HP pump motor

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    Re: Water is stlll cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by ItGetsGreen

    - the suggestions I got in response was something like "your filters may not be bad, follow the BBB/TFP methods and your pool will clearup".
    Probably 90% of the time the filter is not the issue. Thats why you got the advice you did. However, I've still not seen where you have posted up any results of an overnight loss test. If you havent done one, my suggestion is that you do. That would confirm you do not have any more organics growing in your pool. Once thats confirmed, you can address the filter problem. I'm not a cart guy, but I can tell you that "crud" returning to the pool would indicate a filter problem.
    I'll re-iterate. Even if you drop the particles with floc, if the filter isnt working, you wont clear the pool. Your observation that the filter wont remove very small, fine particles is spot on. However, those fine particles cant be seen by the naked eye. They are only a few microns in size. If you use the floc, the particles are bigger, obviously. However, since you can see particles coming back out of the return, your filter cant even catch the bigger ones. Hence, any floc or clarifier you add will not likely work since you can filter bigger particles out as well.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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