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Thread: Teensy Whine.............

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    Teensy Whine.............

    Okay, I have a small complaint... that I can't ever tell if the info is for ABG Pools or ING Pools.

    I think we should have a much more vocal and active ABG Pool section than we do.

    Once in awhile I see a asteric that says 'if you have ABGP'.

    I know that I specifically chose a ABG Pool because I didn't want all the wildlife in my 'inground' pool, here in the woods. But it doesn't mean I just threw one up for my grandchildren for a summer.

    We have really invested in this and would like concrete help. We are very r ural and no pool store. So I really listen to what you say ...good or bad.

    I'm online sporadically, but when I'm on I try to definately pay attention.
    ABG, Cornelius, 12'x24', oval, 7,700 gals, 1 1/2 hp Hayward pump, sand filter. BBB. 6-4'x10' Fafco solar panels, permanently installed on wooden ground rack, GL235 auto controller.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Most of the info on TFP applies to all pools. There are only a couple folks with true indoor pools here (not just screened)
    Anything that applies to an inground, outdoor, vinyl liner pool applies to you. Plaster pools (or pebble, or gunnite or other concrete-type pools) have a need for more calcium. Fiberglass pools need a little calcium. Vinyl needs none, unless you have a heater. Indoor pools need no CYA since they get no sun (although that has been debated by chem geek and others lately) Those are the main differences I can think of.

    So if what somebody is posting is just a general water chemistry question, it should go in the chem section, because it really applies to all pools. If you are asking why the wall to your AGP collapsed, well that is an issue unique to AGP's and should be in the AGP/IGP section.
    Does this help ease some of your frustration? Or have I simply made matters worse??

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, CYA-Chlorine Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Staten Island NY
    Mermaid Queen,

    Is there a need for Calcium in a heated vinyl liner pool? What changes when using a heater? I'm still in my rookie year, but I thought vinyl meant no need for calcium.

    -400 sq ft ingroung Fiji (straight back kidney) ~ 13,500 gallons - Vinyl Liner - 3 to 6 Feet
    -Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump
    -Hayward Perflex DE Filter EC65A
    -Hayward H 250 Heater

  4. Back To Top    #4

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Sebring, Florida
    Is there a need for Calcium in a heated vinyl liner pool?
    Debatable. I have heard from others on the forum that the heater man. requires it but the reasoning behind it, although I think it was discussed, were not clear to me.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  5. Back To Top    #5
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Silver Spring, MD
    With a vinyl liner the only need for calcium is if your warranty requires it. The warranty on heaters often requires that a proper chemical balance is maintained and some of them go on to spell out specific levels that they require. Pool builders will often put similar terms in their warranties. If you have the kind of warranty that spells out specific levels it is worth adding calcium so they can't argue the chemical balance. But there is no chemical reason. Many people with vinyl pools and heaters run with near zero calcium and don't have problems.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    San Rafael, CA USA
    waterbear has mentioned that some amount of CH, around 100-150 ppm, helps reduce foaming. So in vinyl pools where there are water features that could lead to foaming, then some CH can reduce that problem. You are correct that it is not needed in vinyl pools for calcium carbonate saturation.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Coastalish 'down easter'
    Calcium aside, JJ - that's one of the reasons I advocated giving some basic specs for the pool part of everyones sig, if someone trying to answer a question knows what type of pool it is and any special features, better/ more specific advice can be given.

    BTW - I don't think it's right to belittle anybody else's pool, cost and material don't matter (too much) - they are all man made water holes in the backyard and all need care and attention to keep them safe to use.
    Luv& Luk

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Sorry, but I'm not changing from my terminology which is AG or IG seeing that it's "Above Ground" and "In Ground".
    Also, I promise I won't post anything in the above ground forum that's related to inground - except those things that are identical across the two platforms.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    I certainly didn't mean to be rude. And I'm very sorry if I came across as that way! I wasn't even refering to this site, necessarily.

    I've been reading pool pages since Feb. and it seems there are always exception's at the bottom of the page for AGP. Whether it's temp, calcium, pumps, draining etc. I'm not complaining, but if I had my 'druthers' I'd just like to know at the Beginning of the article before I cc/p stuff that doesn't apply to me

    We have gained more than our share of information from this site.

    Grace, that is interesting to know and I'm glad you told me.

    waste...I would never try to belittle anyone.

    matt, I don't want you to change your terminology for anything

    My thanks again to all.....jenn
    ABG, Cornelius, 12'x24', oval, 7,700 gals, 1 1/2 hp Hayward pump, sand filter. BBB. 6-4'x10' Fafco solar panels, permanently installed on wooden ground rack, GL235 auto controller.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Hey Jen,
    No harm done or taken by anyone!

    AG pools are really just IG vinyl lined pools that sit outside the ground

    I cannot build an IG pool on my property unless I raise the grade substantially in areas, even then I'd have a huge water table problem with a deep end sump that won't stop for 2/3rds of the year. Also, being in the country - I'd have a HUGE Wildlife problem - it's bad enough that ducks try to use it every spring, but could you imagine the dead moles/mice/snakes/coons/squirrels/cats/foxes/coyotes/deer/rabbits that I'd be dealing with, I'd likely never be able to swim because of the shock levels I'd need to keep it clean.

    Many people think AG pools aren't real pools, when in fact they are, they are purpose built and in most cases bought for a purpose as well - like in my case.
    A buddy of mine has an IG vinyl pool, and funny enough, it's almost identical in construction method - steel wall panels, sand floor, vinyl liner -

  11. Back To Top    #11
    NWMNMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Waaay NW MN
    I'm with Matt. We are rural, in the woods, have a high water table, etc. This is why we went AG.

    We have a friend nearby with an IG (or had) because of the water table fluctuations, they had major issues, there developed cracks in the bottom, the plumbing was destroyed and its a big empty expensive hole in the ground. They did a horrible job of installation if you ask me and he should have sued, but thats my opinion. Installers in this area are not known for doing a very good job in rural areas where the run off, water tables, underground flowing streams and other factors such as tree roots, etc are huge issues. They like "town" where they have better control of the substrate/soil conditions.

    BTW, we have one real pool store 125 miles away, the other that deals with some things is more of a spa place 50 miles away and they only sell Baqua Yuck products (clueless!) so I ordered everything online, including my pool, and continue to order everything online except minor things I can get at Lowes or Menards, Walmart, etc.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    I have an in ground pool and I think it's just fine to have an above ground pool. In fact, IMO, I don't know if I would spend the money for an in ground pool unless I had money to burn. I have always bought a home with a pool already in place. If I bought a home without a pool, I'd probably go with an above ground.

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

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