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Thread: On the right track??

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    On the right track??

    Ok so sit tight because I have multiple issues.
    I have been turing my green pool blue for several weeks now, I am running my filter non-stop now and have seen some improvements. Let me also mention my pool is a beast and drinks chemicals like cocktails. I am using muratic acid and kem-teck (sp?) shock just for maintenance. I just bought, last night, cal-hypo at 65%. My numbers today were
    FC >10
    pH 6.8
    TA~150-180
    CH 190-200
    CYA 0
    As a side bar I am aerating the pool to decrease TA, and that is why my pH is low as well, added 2 gal of 29% MA last night. I checked just recently and looks like it is up to 7.0, I do live in arizona and it is hot, is this why pH is rising so quickly?
    The kem-tek product has 36% available chlorine and states no calcium in product and will not change pH, (no CYA I assume). I have been using massive amounts of this product for several weeks, i would guess around 60-70 pounds since aug. 1
    I am using the pool calculator and realize the csi is very low so I am hoping the cal-hypo will help raise the CH, and once the TA is lowered and pH is lowered I will be looking good. Except the pool is still slightly green and cloudy.
    I also used the pool calc to generate the gallon amount of my pool, it is a diving pool so I took an average depth of 6 ft, the deepest part is 9 ft and shallowest is 4ft. is this correct, if so it is like 40,000 gallons.
    any help is appreciated, thanks
    35,000 gal. Plaster, in-ground, Hayward swimclear C4025 cartridge filter,
    5 port polaris cleaning system, Hayward gas heater, spa.
    PhoeniX, AZ

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Re: On the right track??

    oh forgot that i added approx. 10 lbs stabilizer (CYA) about mid. july. stills registers 0 when tested.
    thanks
    35,000 gal. Plaster, in-ground, Hayward swimclear C4025 cartridge filter,
    5 port polaris cleaning system, Hayward gas heater, spa.
    PhoeniX, AZ

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track??

    The first thing you need is reliable tests (you had to know that was coming....); those are strip tests, right? I expect your real CYA number is very high.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: On the right track??

    Arrrggggghhhh,
    I did. I know I know, I read it on every post. I will bite the bullet, I do use the strips and the DPD, but CYA aside what about the other numbers. I am also worried about corroding the plaster from low CH but I do live in AZ, and the water is pretty hard. And am I doing the other things right, I am at a critical point in pool care and if I cant get this together we are hiring a pool person, this pool is ruining my marriage.
    35,000 gal. Plaster, in-ground, Hayward swimclear C4025 cartridge filter,
    5 port polaris cleaning system, Hayward gas heater, spa.
    PhoeniX, AZ

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: On the right track??

    Get the TFT test kit. you will fix things more quickly having accurate test. Do you have access to bleach. I think you have used enough powder. Switch to bleach. Once you get control you will never let anyone touch your pool, including your wife!
    17,000 gal in ground with spa, wet edge surface, Paramount PCC 2000 in-floor cleaner,Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 520 Cartridge filter, 3 hp Pentair Intelliflo VS SVRS pump , waterfall with 1 1/2 hp booster, Del ozone Eclipse1 ozonator, puck feeder. Borates added 8/2/2010

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track??

    With TA that high (assuming it's at least in the ballpark), your pH will get back to normal pretty quickly. I wouldn't worry about CSI until you have a good kit. High or low CSI isn't going to cause damage in a few days, so if you order a kit pretty soon I think you'll be OK.

    Hiring a pool person won't solve your issues, unfortunately. The majority of pool services don't have clue. Until you can get a good kit, I would just keep the filter running and keep the FC above the max your kit can read (using bleach/liquid chlorine), and keep the pH in the sevens. Strip pH tests are reasonably accurate.

    On a different note, your Polaris cleaning system has five zones? All the valves I've seen have six. I need one with five..... oh, and your sig says Phoeniz... hehe.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: On the right track??

    Quote Originally Posted by macgas
    ... Once you get control you will never let anyone touch your pool, including your wife!
    This is funny....

    I won't hire a pool person if I were you. Been there, done that when we did not know better. We went through 2 pool services and still ended up with algae multiple times. It was frustrating. Since we were frustrated any way, we would rather not have to pay to get frustrated so the pool services were gone.
    IG pebbletec pool: size of pool: 27,000 gal; filter: cartridge - Hayward Superstar Clear; pump size: 1.5 HP; TF 100 Test kit - got it on 7-29-10; The Pool Cleaner-4-wheel suction model; Pool calculator: http://www.poolcalculator.com/; bleach calc: http://troublefreepool.com/files/BleachCalc262.exe

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track??

    In Arizona, most everyone with a pool service ends up with horrible scale in the pool (myself included). I was told "it's just part of living in AZ, nothing anyone can do". Bull!!
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track??

    Hi and welcome to TFP! I am going to address your issues within the quote of your post in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by mybluepool
    Ok so sit tight because I have multiple issues.
    I have been turing my green pool blue for several weeks now, I am running my filter non-stop now and have seen some improvements. Let me also mention my pool is a beast and drinks chemicals like cocktails. I am using muratic acid and kem-teck (sp?) shock just for maintenance. I just bought, last night, cal-hypo at 65%. My numbers today were
    FC >10
    pH 6.8
    TA~150-180
    CH 190-200
    CYA 0
    As a side bar I am aerating the pool to decrease TA, and that is why my pH is low as well, added 2 gal of 29% MA last night. I checked just recently and looks like it is up to 7.0, I do live in arizona and it is hot, is this why pH is rising so quickly?
    Aerating increases pH without affecting TA. You decrease TA with MA and aerate to bring the pH back to the 7.2-7.8 range. Repeat until the TA is 70-90. However you should wait until your pool is clear to adjust the TA. Just bring your pH to 7.2

    The kem-tek product has 36% available chlorine and states no calcium in product and will not change pH, (no CYA I assume Kem-Tek shocks contain dichlor or trichlor which contain CYA). I have been using massive amounts of this product for several weeks, i would guess around 60-70 pounds since aug. 1
    So odds are your CYA is too high to register on the test strip

    I am using the pool calculator and realize the csi is very low so I am hoping the cal-hypo will help raise the CH, and once the TA is lowered and pH is lowered (I hope you meant raised! Never let pH drop below 7.2!)I will be looking good. Except the pool is still slightly green and cloudy.

    I also used the pool calc to generate the gallon amount of my pool, it is a diving pool so I took an average depth of 6 ft, the deepest part is 9 ft and shallowest is 4ft. is this correct, if so it is like 40,000 gallons.
    any help is appreciated, thanks
    Thanks to multiple interruptions from the offspring, I have been able to see subsequent posts. I would hold off on the pool service at this point. We have all been in your shoes to one extent or the other and understand your frustration. If you read pool school a couple of times and post any questions you may have we will help you take control of your pool.

    Raise the pH with aeration and don't add anything else until you can get a high quality test kit such as the TF 100 or the Taylor K2006 available from a variety of online retailers. Odds are you will be draining water (or getting a reverse osmosis treatment) and I would hate to see you put more money into the pool until we know exactly what needs to be done.

    Best of luck to you!
    TFP Moderator
    Helpful links: TF Test Kits,TFP Pool School, PoolMath
    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
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  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: On the right track??

    It's kinda all been said - but I'll offer some encouragement.

    Right now spending $70 on a test kit will feel like just one more pool expense. I promise - a good test kit and taking the time to know how to use it will totally set this pool thing straight for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by zea3
    FC >10
    pH 6.8
    TA~150-180
    CH 190-200
    CYA 0
    As stated before chances are your CYA is really high. Just based on the history it's impossible that it's 0. Depending how high it can make it almost impossible to keep up with the algae. A CYA of 200 you could be looking at FC levels near 50 or 60ppm before it really starts to knock back the algae.

    Your CH number - I dont believe that either. We have hard water and our CH is 1100. Now at the end of summer you'd expect your CH to be at it's highest with all the evaporation and refill.

    PH - 6.8. It could be quite a bit lower if you're adding acid by the gallon. I always find those strips really hard to read on the PH.

    Pool School is the place to start. Really it's Chlorine Chlorine Chlorine to kill and burn off the algae - but if your CYA is real high draining some water might be the only practical solution.

    Get some good numbers, post em and people here love to help.

    And to Mrs. MyBluePool - the pool will get there. It may take a few weeks of diligent work, but once it's fixed it's really very easy to maintain. Good Luck.
    16K Gal Plaster | Compupool SWG | Intelliflow VF | TF-100

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: On the right track??

    I can't offer anything aside from adding a +1 to getting the TFT kit. This is our first pool, and the full kit has been a huge help in trend analysis of each little bit of chemistry that we try, especially when we gave the water its first real shock.

    This site has been a huge help as well....we'll never hire a pool service now that we come here.
    30K gal - IG plaster w/spa, all heated - 3/4HP main pump - Apollo DE filter - TF100XL in use ;)
    Location: Bakersfield, CA, on a district well rich in alkalinity and under a sky rich in dust.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: On the right track??

    Ok, Ok i'll get the test kit. BUT I do remember reading a post where this guy was using powder and his CYA was zero, everyone kept saying it cant be zero but when he got the kit it WAS zero. Then someone mentioned that the powder he was using from wal-mart did not have CYA in it, hth brand i think. SO I hope this is the case. I was using bleach to start, but my pool is so huge i was using a ton of the 6% stuff (3+ gallons), so i switched to 11% and was using ~ 2 gallons a day. this cost me about $7 a day, plus acid cost. So I switched back to the kem-tek, because it states no calcium in product and will not lower pH. Also my pool is full sun all day long, it is situated east to west. Right now my pH is 7.2 and FC is >5 using DPD test kit. Also TA is down using strips. Also I calculated CH by using the TH (from test strip) number multiplied by two thirds. See I HAVE read pool school.....several times. The pool is clearing up and all algae seems to be settled on bottom, I am brushing every morning and running filter all day and night.
    Not sure where to go from here though, cant decide on liquid vs. powder, thats a lot of liquid to store and going to get more every other day is not fun, been there done that.
    @melt in the sun, we also have scaling but this was already present when we bought this house and pool, haha phoeNIX.
    @macgas......MR. mybluepool chuckled at your comment, UNFORTUNATELY my husband makes the big bucks so i manage the domestic responsibilities. the pool included, i also have a one year old daughter to manage and she is easier than the pool.
    @everyone else thanks I dont want the pool service he does, grrrrrrr
    I Iove this site and all the help.
    mybluepool
    a.k.a, fawn
    35,000 gal. Plaster, in-ground, Hayward swimclear C4025 cartridge filter,
    5 port polaris cleaning system, Hayward gas heater, spa.
    PhoeniX, AZ

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track??

    Fawn,
    Given that the powder "does not add calcium" and "will not lower pH" it's almost certainly dichlor. If you've used 60-70 pounds of dichlor since 8/1, I can guarantee you that your CYA is through the roof. 1000 oz (~65 lbs) would raise your CYA by 94 in a 40k gallon pool. The picture gets even worse if your pool isn't as large as you think.

    Please do get a good kit! Things will start to fall into place once you know where you're starting. After that, the heavens will open, angels will sing, your marriage will be perfect, and your daughter will say "yes ma'am" and never whine again!
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track??

    It looks like that kem-tek stuff is just Tri-chlor. http://www.kem-tek.com/msds.html

    And Pool School says this about Trichlor: stabilized form of chlorine (chlorinated isocyanurate) usually sold in tablet or stick form for use in automatic chlorinators or in floating dispensers since it is very slow dissolving. It has a very low pH and will lower pH and TA. It is a good choice for new plaster pool startup chlorination. It will cause CYA levels to rise with continued use so it is not a good choice for those with cartridge filters or in climates that do not winterize pools and have an extended swim season. It will add .6 part CYA for every 1 part of chlorine it adds.

    Get a test kit. And a speedstir. You've been shovelling money at the pool, so what's another hundred? Besides, this expense will pay for itself.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: On the right track??

    ok, the kit is on the way......more accurate numbers on the way. Lord help me in explaining this cost to my hubby. ;^0
    @richard320 i can think of a hundred different way to spend another hundred besides on the freakin' pool
    35,000 gal. Plaster, in-ground, Hayward swimclear C4025 cartridge filter,
    5 port polaris cleaning system, Hayward gas heater, spa.
    PhoeniX, AZ

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: On the right track??

    YES, you are on the right track now. The test kit will show you exactly what is going on. Then you will know what to do.

    Read the Pool School, print out some of the pages and put it into a binder to review. Also take notes as you read on the forum when you see something that may be important to your pool. I copied down notes about how to clean the cartridge filter, how to know when to do it.

    When you get the test kit, start a log of all test results, what you added to the pool, and what you expected the outcome to be. Post here anytime you need any help. There is always someone around who can help. You'll get to know who the pros are and who the helpful novices are.

    Taking care of the pool is not hard, it is a lot like having a pet. You can't ignore it, nor can you expect a stranger to take very good care of it for you. Like most pets, it does take time but not really a lot of time. Just regular time. It can be a LOT of fun for the whole family. Just get it under control and tend to it regularly.


    I never had a pool before. Never really wanted one. But my husband did so we got a house with a pool 2 years ago. I found this forum as we were buying the house and so we never hired a pool service although the pool inspector did identify what the equipment was. I declined the $270 "Pool School" they offered and began my study here instead.

    We only used the spa the first 6 months (fall and winter) and mainly I just cleaned the skimmers of leaves and used pucks, testing with strips. By spring I had a test kit and started reducing the CYA (was 150) and getting the balances correct(TA was too high, CH was too low). In a few weeks most of the problems were solved and I really really understood what was going on.

    Along the way the forum has helped me to diagnose and repair a Polaris problem, a leak, an overflow pipe, electrical for the waterfall and fountain, as well as just getting the chemistry correct. I do get my husband involved sometimes, strong man stuff or electrical. But I do all the chemistry. And the pool is always beautiful.

    You can do it, it is not hard.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: On the right track??

    ok peeps, got the kit and had my first wet run.....here are the results
    CYA: 70-85
    CH: 330
    TA: 140
    pH: 7.5-7.8
    FC:5.5 CC:0 TC:5.5
    Temp: a balmy 91
    So here are my numbers, my pool is still green, brushing everyday, have been using liquid chlorine past week used 6 gallons have 4 gallons in garage 10% or 11% strength.
    What is my next move???
    Fawn

    (edit) thoroughly cleaned the filter last weekend (gross), and before using liquid went through 5# of cal-hypo 65% in 4 days.
    35,000 gal. Plaster, in-ground, Hayward swimclear C4025 cartridge filter,
    5 port polaris cleaning system, Hayward gas heater, spa.
    PhoeniX, AZ

  18. Back To Top    #18
    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track??

    Welcome to TFP, raise your FC to around 7-8ppm and perform the overnight FC loss test. Given your cc's are zero the overnight test will confirm the need to shock. If you lose more than 1ppm overnight, you'll have to start the shocking process.

    From reading your previous posts, you have a fairly large pool, so I understand your dilema wanting to use powder vs liquid, but I can atest that liquid is by far prefered given the only byproduct is salt. DiChlor and Trichlor add CYA and Cal Hypo raises CH which can cause calcium scaling.

    Once you are done balancing, you may want to strongly consider adding a SWG or purchasing a liquidator as an automated chlorination method.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: On the right track??

    Thanks, ya'll sure do make a person feel very welcome here!
    What if the algae is visible, can we just skip to the shock process?
    I think i resent your comment about a SWG/automatic chlorinator...
    35,000 gal. Plaster, in-ground, Hayward swimclear C4025 cartridge filter,
    5 port polaris cleaning system, Hayward gas heater, spa.
    PhoeniX, AZ

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track??

    With a green cloudy pool you can pass go and head straight to shocking.

    However, with a CYA of 80 your shock level is going to be 30ppm. In a 35,000 gallon pool that's 8 gallons of 6% bleach just to get it there one time.

    I would seriously consider draining half the water to get the CYA down to a managable level before I started shocking if it were me.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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