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Thread: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

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    Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Hello all,
    I have recently found this site and have learned so much about pools - thank you! As my first post here, I wanted to run down my price quote from the builder we have selected to install our IG pool. We live in Southern New Hampshire.

    16x32 Kidney or Rectangle
    Wall System with Lifetime Steel
    Tile & Pebble Liner: Kafko 30/30 mil (5 yr 100% Warranty)
    300 sq ft Mod Media Filter
    1.5hp 2" StaRite Pump Motor
    500 watt Underwater Lights with LWS
    Safety Line w/ floats
    1 Widemouth Skimmers w/ 2" Plumbing
    2 Clean Water Returns
    2 Bottom Drains w/ Anti Entrapment Covers
    Foam Side Walls and Shallow End Floor (1/4")
    3'x7' Poured Concrete slab for equipment
    3 Tread ladders All SS
    Aluminum Rim Loc Coping
    Complete Vacuum Kit
    Hand Skimmer
    Wall Brush
    Test Kit
    6' Diving Board
    Concrete Bottom
    Chemical System (Which after reading about BBB method - not sure if we need this???)
    8' Stairs with Handrails
    Automatic Vacuum
    640 sq ft Broom Patio
    Solar Cover
    Safety Cover
    Electrical with Timer
    3 loads of water

    Total Cost: $27,663.00

    Add in a Salt Water Generator for $1400.00

    Questions are:
    1. Does this look like a fair price for the area?
    2. Does it look like everything is included that we would need to get started?
    3. My son and husband have very sensitive skin - we were looking into a SWG because of this. But after reading the BBB method, would a SWG be necessary?
    4. If doing the BBB method, do you need to tell the builder to not add chemicals once water is put in the pool because we will be using a different method of testing/keeping water clean?

    I have a lot more questions - but want to take baby steps as this seems to be quite the overwhelming process. I want to get it right from the start, and have this huge purchase be worth it for us!

    Thanks so much for your help in advance!!

    Rachel
    16x34 Oasis IG Liner Pool with Cozy Cove, Sta-Rite s7m120 Mod Media Filter (1 hp), Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro Pump, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, LED lights, Hayward Goldline Aqua-Rite SWG (T-15 Cell) and TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Yea,, thats not bad at all. I'm in central massachusetts so the prices are not that much different.

    Get the salt water system. You will not be sorry and you can do "BBB" with a SWG. BBB is more about testing your water and knowig what to do with the results.

    I'm sure i'll think of more but off the top of my head:

    1) what kind of filter is that? Cartridge?

    2) what does the electrical work include, exactly?

    3) that 1.5 HP pump is really to big for that pool. A 1 HP or even a 3/4 HP is plenty.

    4) think about a heat pump. it will add around 4k to the price, but worth it IMO

    5) I have a kidney, so im biased! I think they are more interesting.

    6) with a 32 foot length an d a diving board, you wont have muich shallow end. It will have to drop off pretty fast. Do you really want one? If it were me with that size pool, id ditch it, but that only one opinion.

    7) 2 returns are not enough. you need 3 on that pool.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    1) It is a Cartridge filter (Sta-Rite System 3 mod Media SM Series)

    2) He said everything was included in electrical - we'll run from our basement to equipment area to pool

    3) If we upgraded to an 18x40 would the 1.5 still be too big?

    4) We've been debating the heat pump so we could actually use the pool from early June through late Sept...can't really do without one!

    SWG: So do you still use the BBB products with the SWG (bleach, borax & baking soda)? What is the advantage of having the SWG over just using the BBB products? If I don't have to sink that upfront cost into that product I would rather not...but if there is some HUGE advantage to doing so, then we will. Also the builder is not a fan of SWG for some reason - says that they ruin everything, but I think that's just his opinion.

    Thanks again for the help!

    Rachel
    16x34 Oasis IG Liner Pool with Cozy Cove, Sta-Rite s7m120 Mod Media Filter (1 hp), Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro Pump, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, LED lights, Hayward Goldline Aqua-Rite SWG (T-15 Cell) and TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Quote Originally Posted by racharoow
    SWG: So do you still use the BBB products with the SWG (bleach, borax & baking soda)? What is the advantage of having the SWG over just using the BBB products? If I don't have to sink that upfront cost into that product I would rather not...but if there is some HUGE advantage to doing so, then we will. Also the builder is not a fan of SWG for some reason - says that they ruin everything, but I think that's just his opinion.
    Rachel this is from someone with limited experience so take it with a grain of sand, proos will be here soon
    Despite that I'm a pool newb do I have to vote for a swg! We have one and it works terrific so far in our pool.
    From where I come from more or less everyone install a swg in their new builds and so far I have not seen many negative opinions about them, if any...
    I have not any problem to keep my fc levels up with very little run time on our unit. Now at the end of the season when the bathing load is not so intense and the solar cover is on I get away with a couples hours on the lowest output each day. and I have a swg that produce 24g/hour. I'm very happy so far by the way it's operates and if there isn't any quality issues down the road can't I see any reasons not to recommend it.
    Inground concrete pool 14600 gallons,Pentair Whisperflo 3/4HP WFE-3, Hayward swimclear 420sq ft
    Zodiac LM3-24 SWG, Dolphin Diagnostic poolrobot, Heatpump Gullberg&Jansson 13,8KW, TF testkit.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Quote Originally Posted by racharoow
    Also the builder is not a fan of SWG for some reason - says that they ruin everything, but I think that's just his opinion.
    Wonder what "everything" is. Might be that the equipment he usually uses is not really designed for SWG? I'd get him to elaborate.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    He gave me an article from Pool & Spa News dated Dec 2006 - so I guess I should take it with a grain of salt as this is probably really dated material.

    The article states that stone coping, such as limestone, has issues with degrading and flaking. Also happening with decks and rock waterfalls - and the article states that the only thing that these pools had in common was a swg - but did not confirm it was actually the swg that causes the issue. Just that coping and entire decks have had to be replaced.

    I thought that a SWG was the way to go...and I guess I should not base his opinion on a 2006 article. Any other tips/adivice for swg or any of the other questions I have is much appreciated!

    Thanks for the inputs already

    Rachel
    16x34 Oasis IG Liner Pool with Cozy Cove, Sta-Rite s7m120 Mod Media Filter (1 hp), Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro Pump, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, LED lights, Hayward Goldline Aqua-Rite SWG (T-15 Cell) and TF-100 Test Kit

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    A vinyl pool with poured concrete coping and concrete decking will be just fine with a SWG. I wouldn't go without it. Yes, even for a 18x40 a 1.5 hp pump is too big. See if you can't get a 2-speed pump while you're at it. Ditch the "chemical system" and whatever junk test kit they include.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    I have limestone coping and a SWG. I've seen no evidence yet after almost 3 years with the coping and the SWG of any problems.
    SWG have big upsides that far outweigh any down side
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Since you have no rock the SWG should not be an issue, I probably would have if we had not done sooo much stone.

    I would echo the other's in that you don't need the chemical system, and a 2 speed or variable speed may save you the money it costs over time. Also, unless the test kit is a Taylor brand, go for the TFT test kit.

    Good luck, Kelly
    10K IG, Gunite with Wet Edge "Midnight Ocean" pebble surface, with spa, tanning shelf, and fountain. Pentair Intellibrite LED pool and spa lights. Rola-Chem chlorine pump (and tank), Pentair DE "Quad 80" cartridge filter, 400K BTU gas heater, VF Whisperflo, and Legend Pressure Side Cleaner with Pentair booster pump. Using TFTestKit.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Thanks everyone for your replies!

    What is the advantage of having a 2 speed pump over 1? Also why are 3 jet returns better than 2? I mean, I think I can logically guess why - but want to have the real answer ready for when I speak with the builder today and sound like I know what I am talking about!

    I tried to find the info on the boards to the 2 speed pump and 3 jet returns, but did not have any luck.

    Thanks again for all of your help
    16x34 Oasis IG Liner Pool with Cozy Cove, Sta-Rite s7m120 Mod Media Filter (1 hp), Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro Pump, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, LED lights, Hayward Goldline Aqua-Rite SWG (T-15 Cell) and TF-100 Test Kit

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    You can run a 2-speed pump on low for a longer period of time and get the same amount of circulation using less electricity. It's an efficiency thing, and the cost difference pays for itself pretty quickly, especially if your electric rates are high.

    Three (or more) returns just helps to make sure there aren't any dead spots in the circulation, where algae can grow.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Thanks everyone for the replies!

    When asking the builder about the following, I got the following responses:

    - Downgrade to a 3/4 or 1 hp pump instead of 1.5: Builder stated that 1.5 is needed to get all of the water through
    - Asked about installing a 2 speed pump: Builder said he could, but has never put one in on a pool the size we are looking for. He said running it on low speed all day would be more of a pain for us in the long run and would not save us any money. He said we are better off with the 1 speed and a timer.
    - Asked about including an extra return: Builder stated that 3 would be overkill as 2 does not provide any dead spots. Said that he would put 3 in if we really wanted, but it would be a waste of our $250.

    Thoughts on any of the replies? Are they typical of builders to have this line of thinking?

    At this point we would not be scheduled until mid-Sept to start the project...and that just seems like a lot of money to pay to not get to use the pool this year! We are thinking that we might wait and start the project early next spring...so many tough decisions to make that comes with a pool - I would have never guessed!

    I am so glad I found this site though - I have learned so much from it and can feel comfortable with whatever decision we make!

    Thanks again for the help!!
    16x34 Oasis IG Liner Pool with Cozy Cove, Sta-Rite s7m120 Mod Media Filter (1 hp), Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro Pump, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, LED lights, Hayward Goldline Aqua-Rite SWG (T-15 Cell) and TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    A 1.5 HP pump is way too big for that pool. 3/4 HP or 1 HP at the most.

    I kind of agree and disagree with him on the 2 speed pump. If you get a 3/4 HP pump, you dont need a 2 speed, IMO. If you go with the 1.5 HP, thats a different story. But again, 1.5 is overkill.

    You need 3 returns. For that pool, you need 2 near the steps, spaced maybe 4 feet apart, (one return should push water over the bottom or middle step, one will push it over the top step, or pretty close anyway) and one in the deep end, opposite the skimmer (skimmer should be in the deep end). For that size pool, only 1 skimmer is needed. He got that right.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    You are the customer. If your pool builder won't listen, I'd find a new one. A 2-speed will save you money, even if it's a 3/4 hp.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    A 2-speed will save you money, even if it's a 3/4 hp.
    Maybe, maybe not. Up here, electric rates are dirt cheap. It would take long while to recoup the price of a 2 speed if he went with a 3/4 hp. I guess i'm not so hung up on 2 speed pumps, though. I run my 3/4 hp 12 hours a day, and my cost is maybe 30-35 a month. So..take my opinion with that in mind.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    For a pool that size I would have 2 skimmers 4 returns and a 1hp pump. That should give a good turn over rate of 5 hours. at least one return set deep to stir the bottom of the pool.

    Pointless having a 1.5hp pump with only 1 skimmer and two returns.

    Seems your builder prefers bottom drains to skimmers.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Quote Originally Posted by teapot
    For a pool that size I would have 2 skimmers 4 returns and a 1hp pump. .
    Teapot, in the US at least, nobody really puts 2 skimmers in a pool unless it's over 600 sq feet. 4 returns are ok, but overkill. 3 are adequate, really. He has 2 drains in the floor quoted. I'd really go with one wall suction. For a vinyl pool, a wall suction is more desirable.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Yes I noticed that, In Europe skimmers usually number 2 as soon as you get to 10m x 5m. (32 x 16) I personally add extra returns to balance out the the flow through the skimmers as it saves the pump working too hard, it also prevents dead spots in corners. In France for example if your pool is shared by more than one family the water turnover rate is 3 hours DDASS law, I prefer 4-5 hours for ordinary domestic pool as that allows for 1.5 -2 turnovers per day.

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    Re: Price Quote for IG - does it pass the sanity test?

    Thank you, bk406 & teapot for your replies and discussion. This certainly helps in making all of these decisions easier.

    bk406 - thank you also for the description of where the 3 returns should go. That would have been one of my next questions. I think I would be OK with using the 3/4 or 1 hp pump and only having 1 speed if that is a good alternative to the 2 speed pump.

    Thank you both again!!
    16x34 Oasis IG Liner Pool with Cozy Cove, Sta-Rite s7m120 Mod Media Filter (1 hp), Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro Pump, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, LED lights, Hayward Goldline Aqua-Rite SWG (T-15 Cell) and TF-100 Test Kit

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