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Thread: PH Help

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    Shablam's Avatar
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    PH Help

    Numbers:

    FC - 8
    CC - 0
    PH - 7.8
    TA - 120
    CH - 250
    CYA - 70

    I am having a issue with the PH in my pool; no matter how much acid I put in the next day it shoots back up to 7.8 +. Yesterday I put 35 oz per the pool calc of acid to lower to 7.2. Tested a few hours later and it only dropped to 7.5. This morning it is back up to 7.8.

    I am mixing in a 5 gallon bucket with pool water and pouring slowing by return jets in the pool. Has anyone ever had this trouble or found the best way to lower? Or has anyone ever experienced spikes in PH such as this?

    Thanks for the help
    12,000 gallon in ground pool with rock and spa water fall, Jandy Aqualink Controls, Polaris Cleaner with booster, Hayward C17502 cartridge filter. Managed by a TF - 100 Test Kit.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    Sounds normal to me. You still have fairly high TA, and the spa waterfall aerates things. Just keep it up and eventually things will settle down. I use a lot of acid, but I did slow things down by adjusting the valves so the spa only gets about 10% of the flow. It doesn't look like it's at a boil anymore.

    You might want to double-check the label on the acid, it might be weaker than you think.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    Yup, what Richard said....you may want to lower your TA to around 70 if you have a SWG and use your water features often. Aeration/SWG and New plaster raise PH and you can combat this by running a lower TA.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: PH Help

    If, after lowering your TA, you still have trouble with pH rise, you can consider the addition of borates to your pool. I think though, that when your TA gets down to around 70, things will be much better for you as far as pH rise is concerned.

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    Woodberg's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    I would also recommend lower your TA. I had the same issue with constantly rising PH and I've now got my TA at 60. My PH level is a lot more constant at around 7.5. I only have to add acid 1-2 times per month.
    20,000 gallon gunite pool, attached spa, Pebblesheen finish, Paramount PCC-2000 infloor cleaning system, Paramount ClearO3 ozone system, Intelliflo VS main pump, Whisperflo 1HP cleaner pump, StaRite cartridge filter, StaRite heater

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    Shablam's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    Thanks for the info and the direction. I will begin lowing the TA to 70 and see how it goes.

    Thanks again!
    12,000 gallon in ground pool with rock and spa water fall, Jandy Aqualink Controls, Polaris Cleaner with booster, Hayward C17502 cartridge filter. Managed by a TF - 100 Test Kit.

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    Re: PH Help

    Hi everyone. I am having the same problem. I quit shocking the pool for mustard algae on August 7. I let the chlorine come down to 6. I tested pH eversince and it has been at 7.8 or 7.6. The color of the test sample is always more red than the block so I assumed it is higher than 7.5. I started to add muriatic acid when FC came down to 7.5 to try to bring pH down to 7.4 or 7.3 but no luck. Every night since then, it has tested high. My test results are:
    FC - 6
    CC - 0
    PH - 7.8 or 7.6 can't really tell but it is not 7.5
    TA - 90 - it was 100
    CH -350 or 375
    CYA - 40

    I have used almost 2 gallons of muriatic acid since I quit shocking and the pH is still high. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to lower TA to 70 like shablem to keep pH from increasing? Any suggestion will be gratefully welcomed.
    IG pebbletec pool: size of pool: 27,000 gal; filter: cartridge - Hayward Superstar Clear; pump size: 1.5 HP; TF 100 Test kit - got it on 7-29-10; The Pool Cleaner-4-wheel suction model; Pool calculator: http://www.poolcalculator.com/; bleach calc: http://troublefreepool.com/files/BleachCalc262.exe

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    Quote Originally Posted by kal2002
    Hi everyone. I am having the same problem. I quit shocking the pool for mustard algae on August 7. I let the chlorine come down to 6. I tested pH eversince and it has been at 7.8 or 7.6. The color of the test sample is always more red than the block so I assumed it is higher than 7.5. I started to add muriatic acid when FC came down to 7.5 to try to bring pH down to 7.4 or 7.3 but no luck. Every night since then, it has tested high. My test results are:
    FC - 6
    CC - 0
    PH - 7.8 or 7.6 can't really tell but it is not 7.5
    TA - 90 - it was 100
    CH -350 or 375
    CYA - 40

    I have used almost 2 gallons of muriatic acid since I quit shocking and the pH is still high. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to lower TA to 70 like shablem to keep pH from increasing? Any suggestion will be gratefully welcomed.
    Nothing. Yes.

    2 gallons isn't bad for a pool your size, if it was neglected a while. It took me that much to get my pH to 7.8 and my pool's only 16000 gallons!

    Use 7.4 for your pH target when you use Pool Calculator, then you'll know when it's below 7.5. Unless you're impatient to lower TA, then go to 7.2 and aerate the water. But it will come down given time, as long as you keep adding acid to maintain pH.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: PH Help

    Thanks, Richard. As long as I know that I am doing the right thing, I will continue to do so until I reach the targeted pH level.
    IG pebbletec pool: size of pool: 27,000 gal; filter: cartridge - Hayward Superstar Clear; pump size: 1.5 HP; TF 100 Test kit - got it on 7-29-10; The Pool Cleaner-4-wheel suction model; Pool calculator: http://www.poolcalculator.com/; bleach calc: http://troublefreepool.com/files/BleachCalc262.exe

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    Shablam's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    Ok I am back.

    I have maintained TA at 70 since a few days after posting. The PH still seems to want to settle at 7.8 now matter what I do. I am at a slight loss here. Any thoughts or ideas what might be the cause?

    I am also wondering how long I should leave TA at 70 since it is not a salt pool.
    12,000 gallon in ground pool with rock and spa water fall, Jandy Aqualink Controls, Polaris Cleaner with booster, Hayward C17502 cartridge filter. Managed by a TF - 100 Test Kit.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    You can leave the TA at 70 forever if that works for you. However if your pH is still rising you can try lowering it to 60 to see if that helps.

    Another note is that if your pH stays at 7.8 and doesn't go higher why not just leave it there? There's nothing that says it has to be lower.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: PH Help

    Well i guess you are right. I thought that a proper level was around 7.2 to avoid skin irritation. It does seem like no matter what, the pool wants to sit at 7.8 and even when I get it down to 7.2 by the end of the day it is right back at 7.8.

    Seems like when I get the PH down the water feels better but thats probly in my head, ever since I got my test kit I have become obsessed with numbers.

    Thanks for the help.
    12,000 gallon in ground pool with rock and spa water fall, Jandy Aqualink Controls, Polaris Cleaner with booster, Hayward C17502 cartridge filter. Managed by a TF - 100 Test Kit.

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    Re: PH Help

    My pool is salt gen. and my Ph always is 7.8 and I add a half gallon of acid twice a week.
    4' X 6' depth 10.3 k IG Gunite w/blue diamond brite interior finish. Pentair 1.5 HP pump, Goldline salt system, 300,000 btu Pentair gas heater, Pentair FNS DE filter, blower for in pool bench spa jets, floor sweep/cleaning system, bird cage covering, highly filtered well water.

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastsporty77
    My pool is salt gen. and my Ph always is 7.8 and I add a half gallon of acid twice a week.

    You mean in order to maintain PH of 7.8 you need to add half a gallon of MA twice a week? Not sure I understand you're post. You likely have high TA.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: PH Help

    I have a 33k gunite pool, swg, and go through about 1gal of muriatic acid a week (via diy dosing system) to keep pH about 7.5.

    50ppm Borates and TA about 70

    This spring, when 'opening', the pH was around 8 (I let it get away from me over the winter), TA around 120, zero borates. It took a lot of adjustment to get it steady where it is now.

    best of luck
    33k Gunite, CompuPool CPSC48 SWG, Sta-Rite System 3 DE, 2.25hp dual-speed, POOLVERGNUEGEN Pressure-side

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    Re: PH Help

    I was/am going through very similar pH issues as many here mention. You can read about it here, starting on my post of Aug 4, 2010 to see the help I got:
    pool-opening-for-the-season-t19772-60.html

    Its a learning experienc about how TA & borates & pH relate.

    One guy on this thread mentioned "ok to leave pH at 7.8". I suppose fine if you can keep it there but if its creeping up then it'll exceed 7.8 & you can run into a scaling issue ( I did over the winter when I neglected my pH, the link to that issue is in the above thread)
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
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    Re: PH Help

    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastsporty77
    My pool is salt gen. and my Ph always is 7.8 and I add a half gallon of acid twice a week.

    You mean in order to maintain PH of 7.8 you need to add half a gallon of MA twice a week? Not sure I understand you're post. You likely have high TA.
    Yes that is what I mean a half gallon of MA twice a week to maintain the PH to 7.5-7.8
    I just got my Taylor TF-100 test kit so will do a more through exam. today. If I have high TA the MA should help with that? I use the spa jets/air blower some too which should also help I thought, am I correct here folks?
    4' X 6' depth 10.3 k IG Gunite w/blue diamond brite interior finish. Pentair 1.5 HP pump, Goldline salt system, 300,000 btu Pentair gas heater, Pentair FNS DE filter, blower for in pool bench spa jets, floor sweep/cleaning system, bird cage covering, highly filtered well water.

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: PH Help

    High TA would cause PH to rise as well as the spa jets jet and blowers.

    High TA coupled with a SWG and aeration tend to push PH up. Muratic acid lowers both PH and TA. Eventually as your TA drops and if you cut back on aeration, you should see your PH starting to stabilize

    For now though you are on the right track...eventually you should require fewer and fewer acid additions.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: PH Help

    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b
    High TA would cause PH to rise as well as the spa jets jet and blowers.

    High TA coupled with a SWG and aeration tend to push PH up. Muratic acid lowers both PH and TA. Eventually as your TA drops and if you cut back on aeration, you should see your PH starting to stabilize

    For now though you are on the right track...eventually you should require fewer and fewer acid additions.
    Gees I hope. thanks.

    Just tested with the basic kit at
    CC 2
    PH 7.5 - 7.8
    That is up from this am.
    4' X 6' depth 10.3 k IG Gunite w/blue diamond brite interior finish. Pentair 1.5 HP pump, Goldline salt system, 300,000 btu Pentair gas heater, Pentair FNS DE filter, blower for in pool bench spa jets, floor sweep/cleaning system, bird cage covering, highly filtered well water.

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    Re: PH Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Shablam
    Ok I am back.

    I have maintained TA at 70 since a few days after posting. The PH still seems to want to settle at 7.8 now matter what I do.
    Yeah, I am back too. When I posted on August 17, 2010, my test results were:
    FC - 6
    CC - 0
    PH - 7.8 or 7.6 can't really tell but it is not 7.5
    TA - 90 - it was 100
    CH -350 or 375
    CYA - 40

    As if this morning they are:
    FC - 9.5
    CC - 0
    PH - 7.8 or 7.6 can't really tell but it is not 7.5
    TA - 80
    CH -330
    CYA - 40

    The PH is still at the high end. I quit testing for PH everyday. I only test it weekly and add muriatic acid weekly to try to adjust it to 7.4 or 7.5 but it always goes back to almost 7.8 no matter how much acid I added. Also, I thought after adding so much muriatic acid, the TA level will decrease. It hasn't. It has been at 80 for a few weeks now.
    IG pebbletec pool: size of pool: 27,000 gal; filter: cartridge - Hayward Superstar Clear; pump size: 1.5 HP; TF 100 Test kit - got it on 7-29-10; The Pool Cleaner-4-wheel suction model; Pool calculator: http://www.poolcalculator.com/; bleach calc: http://troublefreepool.com/files/BleachCalc262.exe

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