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Thread: Wrinkles in the deep end

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Wrinkles in the deep end

    Hey everyone. I have a question. We have had this pool for about 3 years and maybe I never noticed it, but in the deep end where the main drain is located, there is a few small wrinkles in the vermiculite. I think thats what you call it? Its the stuff that is trowled over the liner. Its not concrete so I think its called vermiculite.

    Anyway, this liner is 7 years old. In very good shape and was installed by the pool owner at that time. They did a very good job. My question is when I dive down to the bottom and put a little pressure with my finger on it, I know its a wrinkle/air behind it. Liner is totally not leaking any kind of water whatsoever.

    In my opinion, I doubt I can do anything about it at this point but to not mess with it either than when I vacuum lightly over top of it. I am pretty sure its always been there as the bottom of this 40 year old cement pool is cracked and when they preped the bottom, they should have put a cement layer first to smooth it out as you can see cracks from the cement under the liner. Looks like there was foam applied properly to pretect the liner and we do not have ground water issues, however it has been really wet this year. We do have a sump pump that runs on the house but the previous pool owners told me they have never had a problem with the pool. Like I said, its a 40 year old pool.

    Up here in ND, the ground does move which is why cement pools and even plaster pools dont work that well. At least with vinyl liners, it does stretch and move a bit which is what I think happened in this case as I am sure the owners before didnt have that issue. Its in the very bottom at the deep 8' end.

    In my opinion, I guess if its not broke then leave it alone. I just will continue to keep an eye on it. The ground may shift back when the winter time approaches and the ground freezes again. Maybe not. It might just be the way it is until I replace the liner. For now, my plan is to hope I get another 5 years out of this liner before I need to replace it.

    All chems are perfectly in line. I have the TF100 and have not had an algae issue in over 2 years. I actually had a little algae on the pool walls last night because its been so hot, so I added a bit more chlorine and brushed the walls. I left it run overnight and FC was 7.5 and this morning when I tested it, it was 7.5 so I know its good to go thanks to Dave's, handy dandy TF100 test kit

    So give me your thoughts on this one. Tell me what you all think. Maybe I am just overreacting on this, but it tics me off to see those wrinkles that I know I will never be able to move/smooth out.

    Thanks everyone.
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Wrinkles in the deep end

    Hey Chad, good to see you again - NOT good to see you having a problem

    Sounds to me like the rains have puddled under your liner and pushed it around some

    Any chance of some pics?

    I'm a little preoccupied for the next couple of weeks with my move and new job, but will try to visit this site each day, especially to help my friends
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: Wrinkles in the deep end

    Hey Ted,

    Good to see you to and hope your move and new job is going well.

    I dont think pics would not help as you really cannot distinguish the small wrinkle, but I will try. I still doubt that its water behind the liner. Its been dry the past few weeks and really no huge downpours of rain. My thought is that I probobly just missed noticing them and they were there. If not, then its likely a shift in the cement. If it is, then that could be why there is a little bulge. Its not bad as its in the corner of the deep end and then on the north side of the pool. The rest of the bottom is fine.

    It was dark and I had to turn the halogen big light on so I hope the pics turned out ok. You can see the first one has a small line with a small bubble at the end. When I press it, it goes back to the cement so I feel that maybe the liner stretched some or it was like that when it got installed and I never caught it when I bought the house with the pool? Who knows but you know me, I am just really anal. Heck I hard a hard time noticing it when it was full sun today so I dove down tonight to take a look and that is what I found that I described above.

    So lets say it is water from this past spring/summer rains. Usually the water level goes down and I know this as then our sump pump in the basement, which is 8' down, also stops. This is a bit perplexing as last year we had a huge winter/spring flood and I guess I just never noticed it. Still maybe was there and when the ground water when away, the liner maybe flattend back out.

    Its not like its folded up or over, its just a small bubble in a few areas.

    The water is crystal clear anyway as I took this pic at 930pm and it was pretty darn dark.

    Hope this helps some.
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Wrinkles in the deep end

    Chad, looks to me like a past high water issue

    The 'pucker' seems like water pooled under it and then receded.

    That's the besr, and worst, I can tell you right now
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: Wrinkles in the deep end

    Yea, my thoughts exactly. We do have clay but the yard is sloped away to the alley, however, last year and even this spring it was extremely wet. The pool remember is a cement pool with this liner over the top, but that doesnt mean the water didnt get between the cracks of the concrete as concrete is a pourouse substance. Either way, I guess I will just give it time. Maybe the water will receed under those areas as its been hot and should slow up the ground water and start to dry it up. Usually we never have an issue and I feel that these past 2 years of wet weather is the cause here.

    I think the best thing I can do is to just leave it and keep an eye on it. Messing with it might tear the liner and that would be bad so as long as I am carefull and tell the kid/wife to leave that side alone, we should be fine.

    I will keep everyone up to date on this progression if these couple puckered areas go away.

    Thanks again Ted. Later buddy. I may even try to take better pics in the morning sunshine.

    Have a good evening!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Wrinkles in the deep end

    OK, went out this morning and man was it muggy out and hot. 90s here the next couple days and storms.

    Anyway, the "pucker" in the liner has been the same all week since noticing it and has not changed at all. Went out this morning and took a couple better pics in the sunlight. Pool still looks awesome and even from the patio, you really have to look to even notice this "pucker" and even when you dive down and get up close, you really dont see it much.

    I just dont think it will go away and its there to stay. Maybe the cold this winter will shrink it up some as it starts to cool off. Wishfull thinking I guess.

    Thanks Ted for your responses. I know your busy buddy with your own issues right now and I do respect and appreciate your responses and all the other mod squad responses that I have received on this TFP site. If anything, its given me some POP and time to realize that life is too short to get all worked up about anything. Just take it as it comes is my moto.

    Here are the pics and a couple of the deeper end of the pool. Crystal clear! I certainly plan to go swimming with the family today as the water is 86!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: Wrinkles in the deep end

    UPDATE: Well it has cooled off outside. The wrinkles in the deep end are still there and most likely will not go away. I dont think anything has increased in size, but it looks like I will have to address this issue when the new liner goes in.

    I hope to get a few more years out of this current liner. Its in good shape and as long as it doesnt leak and the wrinkles in the deep end dont get any worse, then I will continue as is. If it does get worse, then I will most likely change out the liner and find out what the issue was that was causing it at that time and then formulate a solution to handle it.

    This pool is an old concrete pool that the previous owners just put a liner in. They really should of spent more time smoothing out the bottom by putting in a layer of cement/sand properly as it currently has many cracks in it. My plan is to do this when I put the new liner in and then fix one of the return lines as it is an old metal line yet. I plan to dig down and cut it out and put in a new PVC line. The good news its only about 4-5 foot to fix but the bad news is I would have to cut a line in the current concrete to get to it and replace the pipe and then repoure some new cement and then repaint the pad with the nonskid paint I have been using to make it all uniform again.

    That may be 5 years down the road, but I am starting to save up now for this expense so that I have the whole project paid for when that time comes.

    Has anyone else had this happen? I not getting too worked up about it, but it sure sucks as most people dont even notice it except me. Just particular with sparklypoolitis and then I see the wrinkles.

    I dont know but maybe they were there and I never really noticed them because my pool has never been so clean as it has this year?

    Happy swims to all! Only about 4 weeks of swimming left. Where has the season gone! Wow.
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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    Re: Wrinkles in the deep end

    Chad,

    Somehow I had overlooked the pictures of your pool from last week.

    That was pretty clever taking pictures of your empty pool making us think there was water in it. How did you get that sorta' wavy look where the water line should be....photoshop?

    You personfiy BBB, Chad, and that water is absolutely stunning!!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    reindeerboy's Avatar
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    Re: Wrinkles in the deep end

    Thanks Dave. Just ordered a refill of all your test kit refills. Old ones were getting just that, too old. Without that kit, there is no way I could of accomplished the clean water that I currently have. I am a bit of a perfectionist but I like things done right and with the correct tools, it doesnt take much to do it right.

    Today is extremely windy and I decided to leave the pool run with the cover on because its cold as well. 72 outside and the pool water is 82!

    Thanks again. Sounds like warmer weather to return mid week.

    Hard to believe that I never even had to vacuum the pool for 18 days but now with this wind, I will vacuum Monday or Tuesday night. In ND, we seem to get a fair amount of wind, but we have a very nicely landscapped yard that is protected from the wind really well.

    Have a fantistic Sunday everyone!
    Chad R.

    POOL SIZE: 16 x 32' Vinyl lined pool. 22,000 gallons. 8' deep. 2009 Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump. Hayward S310S 30" 500 lb Sand filter. 1 skimmer and 2 returns. Solar Blanket.

    Pics of my pool: http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/reindeerboy/

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