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Thread: Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

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    hawkeyes's Avatar
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    Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

    I battle high pH and add acid every other day. I target a 7.4 pH in hopes to keep it around 7.57/6 over a 2-day period. My TA has been slowing falling. My numbers today have it at 50 which is the lowest it has ever been. Do I need to add b soda to raise it a bit (which will also cause pH to rise)? I have the fountain in the spa turned down pretty low so the aeration really isn't all that much. Also, do I need to add some liquid stabilizer to bring my CYA up to 60-ish or is 50 ok?

    CL 5
    TA 50
    CH 400
    CYA 50
    SALT 3200
    Water temp: 91 (ugggh...so dang hot here).
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

    With SWCG the recommended CYA level is 70-80, so you could stand to bring it up. This should lower your chlorine demand and once your SWCG % is reduced, pH rise should be less.

    If you add borates you can keep your TA low and still have pH buffered against wild swings.

    Also, you might want to consider living with a higher pH. My quote that follows is from this thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Have you tried leaving it at 7.8 and seeing what happens?

    Up until recently I would immediately bring my pH down to 7.5 every time it got up to 7.8. I have heard that pH likes to sit at around 7.8 with borates so I am doing an experiment now to determine how long it takes to get up to 8.0.

    The impression I get from the experts here is that a little bit of "hands off" philosophy can save frustration as far as pH is concerned (within reason of course) as opposed to constantly fighting it. I have (had?) a tendency to see a recommended range and decide I must be right in the middle. As I get more experience I realize that the edges (or even outside) those ranges can be OK as long as you have a reason and understand the effects. (Zen and the art of pool maintenance)
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    hawkeyes's Avatar
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    Re: Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    With SWCG the recommended CYA level is 70-80, so you could stand to bring it up. This should lower your chlorine demand and once your SWCG % is reduced, pH rise should be less.

    If you add borates you can keep your TA low and still have pH buffered against wild swings.

    Also, you might want to consider living with a higher pH. My quote that follows is from this thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Have you tried leaving it at 7.8 and seeing what happens?

    Up until recently I would immediately bring my pH down to 7.5 every time it got up to 7.8. I have heard that pH likes to sit at around 7.8 with borates so I am doing an experiment now to determine how long it takes to get up to 8.0.

    The impression I get from the experts here is that a little bit of "hands off" philosophy can save frustration as far as pH is concerned (within reason of course) as opposed to constantly fighting it. I have (had?) a tendency to see a recommended range and decide I must be right in the middle. As I get more experience I realize that the edges (or even outside) those ranges can be OK as long as you have a reason and understand the effects. (Zen and the art of pool maintenance)
    I'm scared to let my pH stay at 7.8. I've had scaling in the past and had to acid wash the pool. I have considered adding borates but just haven't gotten around to doing it yet. So without borates, do I need to add soda to bring my TA up? I'll add stabilizer tonight to raise my CYA.
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

    What was your TA (and other numbers) when you got scaling? Were you using SWCG at that time? If not you are in a different situation now.

    With:
    • pH = 7.8
      TA = 50
      CH = 500
      CYA = 70
      Salt = 3200
      Borates = 50


    I get CSI of -0.34 No chance of scaling there.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    hawkeyes's Avatar
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    Re: Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    What was your TA (and other numbers) when you got scaling? Were you using SWCG at that time? If not you are in a different situation now.

    With:
    • pH = 7.8
      TA = 50
      CH = 500
      CYA = 70
      Salt = 3200
      Borates = 50


    I get CSI of -0.34 No chance of scaling there.
    My pH was around 8.2 and TA 120 when I got scaling. The pool was brand new and finished in January. We had unbelievable cold weather here last winter with tons of snow (crazy for Texas) and the pool even had ice form on the surface quite a few times. I'm told that pH is even harder to stabilize in cold weather. I was not informed how important it was to keep on top of my pH and had no idea what scaling even was. I'm just so afraid to let the pH drift upward again because of what happened in the past. It took me forever to get my TA down and now it just is a part of my routine to add about 20 oz of acid every other day. We took a 4-day vacation a few weeks ago and I had the pH at 7.4 before we left. When we returned it was at 8.0.
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

    I agree with the above advice - if you bump your CYA up to 60-70 you should be able to reduce your % setting a bit and eliminate some of the aeration. Because your plaster is still curing target 70 for your TA and don't let it go below 60.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    hawkeyes's Avatar
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    Re: Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

    According to the pool calculator, if I target 70 for the TA I need Add by 99 oz by weight or 70 oz by volume of baking soda. Do I just dump it right in the pool or how do I do this? Also...how much will and how quickly will this affect my pH (just curious how much more acid I'm gonna need to add than I usually do)?
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

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    Re: Raising TA (and do I need to add stabilizer?)

    Dump the baking soda slowly into the skimmer...pump running. Baking soda has a very marginal affect on pH....don't worry about it for now.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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