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ParadigmDawg

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Jul 20, 2009
23
I have been having to bump up the setting a lot lately and now I am at 100% with a 8 hour pump time.
Pool:

13500 gallons
PT Plaster

Whisperflow 1.5hp

DE filter 60 sq ft
IntelliChlor 40

Water temp 88 degrees
T chlorine 0.3
Free chlorine 0.0
PH 7.8 (ADDING ACID)
TA 120
Calcium hardness 333
Stabilizer 50
Salt 3800
Phosphates 500

PB said to shock pool, add 35oz of commercial grade PHOSFREE and increase pump time to 12 hours. If this doesn't correct it he will replace Intellichlor which was just replaced 4 months ago.

Does this sound like a solid plan or is something missing?
 
Phosphree is a way pool stores make money. Phosphates ARE algae food, but if you maintain proper FC levels, they are irrelevant.

Once your FC drops below the "min" recommended level (see our CYA chart), which yours has, algae/organics can get a foothold and the SWG can't keep up.

I agree with shocking the pool (with liquid chlorine only), but then I would do an Overnight FC loss test to confirm what is happening. The SWG must be off for you to do so, and you must have your own test kit. Those results look like pool store results....

Here are a couple of links to start with:

Chlorine CYA Chart

Test Kit Comparison

Water Balance for SWCGs

Shocking Your Pool

Post back if you have any questions or need further clarification on the information in the links.
 
I have the same IC-40 on a pool thats the same size as yours. The IC-40 should, with an 8 hour run time, keep up your FC levels just fine at 50% "on time" or less. Do what PoolMom suggests, that will give you an idea if you have organics in the water eating the FC as soon as its being made. Your CYA of 50 ppm should be ok to hold the FC. Some might say to bump it up, but what you have there now should allow more than 0.3 ppm to accumulate if there are no organics in the water. These also look like pool store test numbers too which can be inaccurate. How confident are you in the CYA actually being 50? Could it be lower?
Just to reiterate, read the links FPM posted, shock with liquid, and see if it holds overnight. You should also think about getting a good test kit. An overnight loss test after shock is really hard to do with pool store testing or even the basic OTO tests from walmart.
 
Thanks for all the comments.

Yes, the results are from the pool store. I wanted to get my own test kit, as described on here, but my PB didn't have the recommended kind. I then went to Leslie's to get one and the guy talked me out of it by saying "just use the cheap test strips once a week and bring in your samples every 2-3 weeks".

They had me use granular chlorine for the shock yesterday, I had been using bleach up until then.

The Phosfree jumped up my filter by 12 psi last night which kind of PO's me. The Crud cost $64 so if it is "snake-oil" I will take the rest back and demand a refund.

My PB is a really stand up guy and always handles issues within hours, he won't hesitate to switch out the IC40 but I just want to make certain it is the issue. Last year I ran 8 hour pump times at 35% and my chlorine stayed between 2-3 all the time.
 
ParadigmDawg said:
. Last year I ran 8 hour pump times at 35% and my chlorine stayed between 2-3 all the time.
Click to expand...
What was your CYA level last year? At 50ppm, thats not enough FC. With 50 ppm, your target FC should be around 4-6 and never let it drop below 4. My bet is you IC-40 is just fine but you have a nascent algea bloom that eating chlorine as fast as it's made. Follow FPM's advice and report back.

Take the phosphate remover back and use the left over money to buy a good test kit. Ditch the strips :wink:
 
I don't know what my CYA was last year, I trusted that the pool store was leading me properly.

Would I see evidence of a algae bloom? My water always looks good and is very clear unless it's difficult to see because of the PT.

I will use the advice given, thanks for all the help.
bk406 said:
ParadigmDawg said:
. Last year I ran 8 hour pump times at 35% and my chlorine stayed between 2-3 all the time.
Click to expand...
What was your CYA level last year? At 50ppm, thats not enough FC. With 50 ppm, your target FC should be around 4-6 and never let it drop below 4. My bet is you IC-40 is just fine but you have a nascent algea bloom that eating chlorine as fast as it's made. Follow FPM's advice and report back.

Take the phosphate remover back and use the left over money to buy a good test kit. Ditch the strips :wink:
Click to expand...
 
Normally you would see an algae bloom. But with a SWG and CYA around 80 you can get into a situation where the SWG is keeping the algae in check enough that you don't see it and yet the SWG never completely kills off all of the algae. In this situation there water won't be quite as sparkling as usual, but that is a very small effect and not always obvious when you don't have another pool right next to it to compare to.
 
paradigmdawg, how goes it? just for something to compare it to. i also have the IC 40 and a pump run time of 12 hours per day. it's currently set on 65% which has been keeping my FC around 7.5 or 8.0 for a month or so. I try to keep my CYA between 70-80 and according to the pool calculator that puts my FC range between 6-11. I always try to stay somehwere in the middle.

Good luck with your issue. AWESOME pool by the way! :cheers:
 
Thanks AJONES. I guess I can post a couple of pictures of it since you brought it up.

2010POOL057.jpg


2010POOL039.jpg

ajones02 said:
paradigmdawg, how goes it? just for something to compare it to. i also have the IC 40 and a pump run time of 12 hours per day. it's currently set on 65% which has been keeping my FC around 7.5 or 8.0 for a month or so. I try to keep my CYA between 70-80 and according to the pool calculator that puts my FC range between 6-11. I always try to stay somehwere in the middle.

Good luck with your issue. AWESOME pool by the way! :cheers:
Click to expand...
 

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Ok, I just got the Leslie's Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit. Looks like it may be designed for people with a higher IQ than me so I guess I better start reading and learn how to do all this on my own. :shock:
frustratedpoolmom said:
Phosphree is a way pool stores make money. Phosphates ARE algae food, but if you maintain proper FC levels, they are irrelevant.

Once your FC drops below the "min" recommended level (see our CYA chart), which yours has, algae/organics can get a foothold and the SWG can't keep up.

I agree with shocking the pool (with liquid chlorine only), but then I would do an Overnight FC loss test to confirm what is happening. The SWG must be off for you to do so, and you must have your own test kit. Those results look like pool store results....

Here are a couple of links to start with:

Chlorine CYA Chart

Test Kit Comparison

Water Balance for SWCGs

Shocking Your Pool

Post back if you have any questions or need further clarification on the information in the links.
Click to expand...
 
New test results using Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit

Water temp 88 degrees
T chlorine 7
combined chlorine 0
PH 7.6
TA 110
Calcium hardness 290
Stabilizer 35-37 (difficult to see exact reading)

I am hot and would like to jump in.
 
Ok that doesnt look too bad. How did you get your CYA numbers?

Since you have the FAS-DPD kit, turn off you IC-40, but run the pump. After dark, measure the chlorine again. In the morning before the sun hits the pool, measure it again (leave the IC-40 off all night). If you have no organics, the FC should be within 1 ppm of what you measure tonite.

BTW, how did you get the FC up to 7? Did you add some bleach?
 
For CYA, I followed directions on the kit where I mixed the reagent and then slowly added to the comparator tube until the black dot on bottom just disappeared.

I shocked with 1lb of refresh last night before I joined this site and asked questions.

Ok, IC-40 is off and pump is running. I will recheck chlorine as described.

Thanks for the help!
bk406 said:
Ok that doesn't look too bad. How did you get your CYA numbers?

Since you have the FAS-DPD kit, turn off you IC-40, but run the pump. After dark, measure the chlorine again. In the morning before the sun hits the pool, measure it again (leave the IC-40 off all night). If you have no organics, the FC should be within 1 ppm of what you measure tonite.

BTW, how did you get the FC up to 7? Did you add some bleach?
Click to expand...
 
Oh, one more question for now.

Since the PhosFree increased my filter pressure form 11 psi to 20, do I need to go ahead and backwash (DE) or will this stuff slowly dissolve and pressure will drop? I backwashed and added DE about 3 weeks ago.
 
Yes, backwash. You should backwash any time the pressure goes up by about 5 or 6 over where it started.

You should read the CYA test by multiples of 10, ie the labeled mark on the tube closest to your water level. So your CYA level is 40. The CYA test doesn't have enough precision to be able to determine the CYA level closer than that.
 
Thanks.

So backwash even though it was the PhosFree that caused the increase in pressure? It has actually started to come back down now and is at 15 psi; so that's a 5psi drop from the morning. That PhosFree must be some sticky, nasty junk.

Should I add some stabilizer? What's the best to use?
JasonLion said:
Yes, backwash. You should backwash any time the pressure goes up by about 5 or 6 over where it started.

You should read the CYA test by multiples of 10, ie the labeled mark on the tube closest to your water level. So your CYA level is 40. The CYA test doesn't have enough precision to be able to determine the CYA level closer than that.
Click to expand...
 

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