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Thread: Is it Dead? (was Slimebag Sadness...)

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    slawton's Avatar
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    Is it Dead? (was Slimebag Sadness...)

    My pool got very cloudy this past Sunday. My FC also tested pretty low at the time (.5 or lower), so because of the combination of the two issues, I determined shocking the pool was in order. My CYA had also slipped to 55.

    I did have some algae after day one of shocking that sank to the bottom. I got that up with the vac. I see no signs of algae anymore, just continually cloudy water.

    The T/A was on the rise this morning and at its top, was at 140. I noticed the pH was on the rise as well, at 7.8.

    I added the recommended amount of MA and several hours later, I had the results posted below.

    Basically, the pH is back where I want it but my T/A target (SWG pool) is between 60-90 and is therefore still to high.

    Thus, my current readings on my second day of shocking (not able to hold FC overnight yet) are:

    FC = 24 (recommended number for SWG shocking)
    CC = 0
    pH = 7.5 (was 8.2 this morning before adding 19 oz or MA [amount according to pool calculator])
    T/A = 130 (was 140 this morning before adding 19 oz of MA [amount according to pool calculator])
    CH = 90
    CYA = 80 (during 1st day of shock, I also raised this number from 55).

    My questions, which I could not find an answer for in a search of the forums is:

    Should I not worry about T/A until getting the pool clear and can higher T/A make the pool cloudy? Also, is it okay to try and attack both problems at the same time (lowering T/A and keeping the FC at 24 until it stabilizes overnight)?

    Further, if I should leave T/A alone for now, what else could be causing the continual cloudiness? Is it simply a matter of time?

    Thanks!
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    slawton's Avatar
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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity

    P.S.

    I have been running the filter 24/7 (is that okay?) and I have spray cleaned the filter as well.
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity

    Is it simply a matter of time?
    That's the answer almost for sure. It can take several days at shock level for a pool to get completely clear. The numbers you post would not indicate any other cause for the cloudiness to me.

    Keep your filter cleaned/backwashed as necessary, keep your FC up, brush and vacuum when you can and have a lot of patience.

    You should see steady, albeit slow, progress on the clarity of your water.

    I would disregard your TA unless you start having pH issues.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity

    You'll want to consider that high FC levels (> 10 or so) will throw off the PH test reading. You may wish to wait until the FC is back to normal before making PH adjustments.
    [center:1kpalu48]Helpful Links: Pool School | CYA/Chlorine Chart | Pool Calculator[/center:1kpalu48]

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity

    It's been a week of shocking and the FC is now holding overnight.

    Yet, the pool is still cloudy. It looks somewhat better this morning but far from what I would consider to be clear. There is no evidence of any algae on the pool bottom or sides either. When I spray off the filter, it doesn't really contain much, if any, signs of algae either, just the normal guck.

    If the FC holds overnight and the the CC is .5 or less, but the water is still cloudy, what is the next step?

    Do I simply let the FC drop down to a normal reading and hope the cloudiness dissipates?

    Thanks for the help!
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity

    If the FC holds overnight, you can stop shocking. The tiny intex filters aren't very good, and can take some time to clear cloudy water.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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    slawton's Avatar
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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity

    Thanks for the responses.

    The water is looking quite a bit better but is still somewhat cloudy.

    I'm thinking about a slimebag...I have been hearing some good things about them.

    So, at what level of FC is it okay to allow swimming again?

    I am now at 17, down from the near 30 I had when I was shocking.
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    slawton's Avatar
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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity

    A search on the site uncovered the answer to my query regarding safe FC for swimming.
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now SLIMEBAG SADNESS....

    I received my new Slimebag yesterday and was very excited to begin filtering with it.

    I let the filter run all night while using the new Slimebag.

    The pool looked clearer this morning....so clear I could see the dead algae on the bottom again!

    So, I began to vacuum the pool and dreaming of water clarity...

    Until I looked over at the Slimebag. I had a massive cloud of green dust floating all around it.

    My first thought was that perhaps after using it overnight, I should have cleaned it. I did so immediately, cleaning it thoroughly.

    Almost immediately upon commencing vacuuming up the algae again, the green cloud reappeared.

    I'm stumped. They advertise that the bag clears cloudy pools. Is dead algae smaller than 1 micron?!
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    Some broken off parts of dead algae are smaller than 1 micron. Also, the slime bag doesn't filter out 100% of everything down to 1 micron, a small percentage gets through. What you are seeing is normal, the little bit getting through the bag is causing the cloudiness. The slime bag is still helping and after some more time filtering it will eventually get everything.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Some broken off parts of dead algae are smaller than 1 micron. Also, the slime bag doesn't filter out 100% of everything down to 1 micron, a small percentage gets through. What you are seeing is normal, the little bit getting through the bag is causing the cloudiness. The slime bag is still helping and after some more time filtering it will eventually get everything.
    I'll second that.

    I used two big Slime Bags with two submersible pumps during this past winter because my filter and pump were out of the system. At the time I had been doing a process to release calcium scaling on the plaster and our usually high winds, year round, were throwing tremendous amounts of dust, much of it less than 1 micron, into the pool. Between the Slime Bags and the fine filter bags on the Aquabot (3-4) a day a tremendous amount of very small stuff was captured. When I disturbed the Slime Bags a cloud would come out especially when I was lugging them out to clean them, which I avoided doing as much as possible as they are so huge and heavy. Much of my dust is < 1 micron. The Aquabot bags capture almost down to 1 micron.

    Once the big filter was in Quad 80 (a very big filter) using Fiber Clear (filters even finer than DE) it took two weeks to totally clear the pool but it eventually cleared. I can only imagine how long it would have taken without the help of the Slime Bags.

    I had a theory, not proven, but some casual observation, that as the Slime Bags were loading, the very fine stuff building up inside the bag acted somewhat like DE coating a DE grid so I let the Slime Bag go quite a while between cleanings. This may not apply to your situaltion at all. My "dirt" contained no dead algae, rather particles that did not change in size once the smallest visible dust "clumps" were broken apart by agitation. By "clumps", in this case, I'm referring to micron sized or smaller smaller particles clinging together. Sort of like breaking up a small piece of chalk.

    At any rate your bags should be capturing most of the stuff. I know mine did. It was amazing how much stuff rinsed out of the bags.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    Thanks for the encouragement and the advice. I will continue my filtering quest!

    I also read about filter basket socks here today and I have now also added these to my arsenol. I realize they don't filter like the Slimebag will, but it can't hurt right?

    Time will tell...
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    Quote Originally Posted by slawton
    Thanks for the encouragement and the advice. I will continue my filtering quest!

    I also read about filter basket socks here today and I have now also added these to my arsenol. I realize they don't filter like the Slimebag will, but it can't hurt right?

    Time will tell...
    The socks will capture a lot. I stopped (temporarily) using them a few weeks ago because they were capturing our stuff so well I was having to change them out several times a day due to the very fine stuff clogging up the sock. Watch the socks carefully as they may clog up pretty fast clearing up your "stuff".

    They will take a big load off of your filter and, depending on the type of filter one has, could catch some fine particles that will go through some filters. The thing I like about the "real" skimmer socks over using stockings is that the socks seem to capture some of my stuff better than a stocking. There are other type of filtering things you can use in the skimmer but I caught a good sale on the "real" ones, $4.99 for a bag of six, so I ordered a bunch last fall. In my pool the skimmer socks also last longer than any hosiery I've used.

    BTW.... I've been in a long process of releasing calcium scale from my plaster since late last fall. The amount of stuff that goes to the skimmer varies by the day and how aggressive I am with the sequestrant and brushing AND which cleaner I'm using. In addition, I think I rule supreme in the amounts of "microscopic" "cementous" dust that goes into my pool. It's a huge challenge to manage this, always has been, but the HUGE majority of people will not have conditions that make changing out the sock several times a day necessary. As you are filtering out dead algae right now, the socks will clog faster than they will once you get your water cleared up.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    A couple of things. BTW... I have some work to do so might not get back to the forum for a while.

    How are you getting your water to the Slime Bag? Is it bypassing your filter? I would think that would be the least hassle. Which size Slime Bag do you have? Some are rated for more psi than others. My biggest one is the Backwash bag. It is huge; at least 36" long. The other one is a little smaller but has the same pressure rating I think. The big one's material composition feels differnt than the smaller one. The pumps I used for the two months I used the Slime Bags for predominate filtering (Aquabot bags did a lot too) were not very powerful, not nearly as high flow and pressure as a pool pump, even a small one. So I didn't see anything leaving the bags unless I disturbed them. Your pump is going to be putting more water and higher pressure flow into the bags than my pumps did so you might see some clouding even when you aren't disturbing the bag.

    Someone here on TFP has some bags that he/she uses over his/her intex filter cartridge, purchased on eBay, that they take off and rinse off, without having to clean their cartridge so much. Sorry I don't have time to look it up. I was thinking about contacting the seller to see if he has one for my spa filter. It looks promising. And if one is under water restrictions may take less water to clean than a cartridge. The bags may even filter finer than the cartridge but can't remember. It seems like it may work kind of like a DE filter, that uses filter media, DE, cellulose, other, to coat the grids or cartridges, filtering finer than sand and cartridges. In the case of the cartridge bag, the bag works kind of like filter media to catch the stuff before it gets embedded in the cartridge. Cleaning my cartridges for spa takes a lot of water. Cleaning the four cartridges for my pool's big Quad 80 takes a tremendous amount of water if the stuff is really stuck on, i.e., our "cementous" dust glued to Fiber Clear filter media. I just switched to using Aqua Pearl for the filter, a few days ago, and so far it is releasing from the filter cartridges much faster and more completely than either DE or Fiber Clear, and that is backwashing only and not opening the filter to spray off the cartridges.
    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    At first, I ran it thru my filter (I have the Intex type, which doesn't do so well). Then, I had read here that someone bypassed the filter to get better pressure through the bag. I tried that next.

    But, I got to thinking about it and I figured why not have both? The Intex filter might just catch some of the dead algae. I even added a filter sock today as well in the hope of capturing a bit more through it.

    I purchased the Polishing Slime Bag (12" x 30"). I talked with the Slimebag folks and they confirmed the only difference between this one and the Vacuum/X-TRA Polish Slimebag are the size. They have the same mircron filtration size. Since I don't get a ton of junk in the pool normally, I went with the regular sized bag.

    I must look into the Aquobot thingy (haven't heard of this yet) and the Intex filter bag on ebay.

    Both sound promising.

    Sometimes I wonder if all this is worth it! We only have 3 months to swim here in Michigan and its been 2 weeks of cloudy water!
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    The Aquabot is the older, big brother of the Pool Rover Jr that a lot of above ground people love. It is a robot. There are essentially three type bags for these the fine, cloth, filter bag, and the net leaf bag, and the after market Nasty Bags that filter virtually as fine as the Aquabot fine bag. They are much cheaper than the Aquabot or even other aftermarket bags and do last a long time. I don't know about the pool rover but the old version Aquabot that I have filters about 3K gallons water an hour. Pool Rover Jr probably not quite as much but a considerable amount. I can run my variable flow pump on lower setting, for turnover, when I run the Aquabot because it does extra turnover and filtering of the water.

    The Pool Rover Jr probably won't do well in a pool where it has to climb up a steep slope from deep end. I don't know if it climbs walls either but it would probably be my first choice if I had a pool that it would work in. The price is great and people love them. They get a lot of stuff in their bag that otherwise would end up in the filter. The Nasty Bags fit a lot of the robots but you'd have to contact the person to see if they would fit the PR jr. Do a search on TFP for "Pool Rover".

    BTW.... when I use my suction cleaner (through the skimmer) I have to backwash my huge filter weekly. When I use the Aquabot I can go up to a month between backwashing. I do have to change out the Aquabot bag at least once a day but it doesn't waste any water and the electrical cost for running the robots is almost nil.

    The Nasty Bags are called "disposable" but I treat them just like the cloth bags and rinse them out and reuse. Every so often I throw all the rinsed bags in the washer on cold/gentle with a little vinegar. This cleans out the fabric pores well. I have some I'm using now that I've had since early winter and they are in great condition. When I'm using the Aquabot it stays in the pool even when it is not running. I have a bad back so the less times a day I have to pull it out the better for my back. When I have extreme, for me, dust, I may use three or more bags during several cleaning cycles a day. BTW.... the Pool Rover Jr. weighs less than the bigger Aquabots.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    slawton's Avatar
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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    Excellent information...thanks so much.

    It sounds like a google search is in order!

    I wonder if these things can work with the Intex set-up...
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    Re: Shocking and Alkalinity and now, SLIMEBAG SADNESS!

    I have been working on killing my algae for some time by shocking the pool following the rules outlined on this site. I also used a Slimebag.

    I have gotten the overnight reading that has not gone down, my CC's test at 0.

    Unfortunately, I do still have algae along the pool bottom where it has settled. I know because I see a thin layer of green dust on the bottom. Brushing brings it up in a cloud.

    I must say the pool water is quite clear after shocking and using the Slimebag.

    I am wondering if the algae is dead or alive. I assume since my overnight reading is solid, my CC's are at zero and the water looks quite clear it is dead and just needs to be continually vacuumed/filtered up.

    Is it okay to swim?

    Opinions?
    Pool Size/Type: 12' x 24' x 52" Intex AG Rectangular Pool
    8,400 gallons
    Filter Type: SWG combined with a 2,000 GPH pump

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    Re: Is it Dead? (was Slimebag Sadness...)

    Do you have stairs, a ladder, or some other place where there is low circulation & thus where algae can survive? I had algae growing in my steps & the weight with the result that FC levels didn't drop overnight nor was CC above 0.5, and the water stayed cloudy even after shocking. Filtering for days resulted in a constant dusting on the pool bottom and continued cloudiness.

    In short: check for places where algae may be lurking.
    Andy
    11K gal 15x30 AG; 1.5 Hp Hayward pump + XStream 150 sq ft cartridge filter; AquaCal SQ110 heat pump; solar cover; Pool Rover Jr cleaner

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