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Thread: Newbie with Cloudy Water

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    Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Hi all, last summer we got a 16' x 48" Intex Ultra Frame AGP, I kind of strung it along last year adding **** I didnt need here and there and it go me by. This year I upgraded to a 4000GPH Filter and a SWG. After looking through a few online pool forums this was is hands down THE BEST!

    I left the water in all winter and reused this year, started out with a TON of algae and very murky

    Over the last week I got these numbers

    July 16
    Hardness ~200
    Total Chlorine 0
    FC 1
    Bromine 2
    Ph 8.4
    TA 0
    CYA 0

    July 17
    Hardness 200
    TC 1
    FC 8
    Bromine 20
    PH 6.9
    TA 160
    CYA 0

    July 20
    Hardness 250
    TC 1
    FC 20
    Bromine 25
    PH 7.2
    TA 160
    CYA 100+

    July 21
    Hardness 250
    TC 3
    FC 15
    Bromine 25
    PH 7.4
    TA 160
    CYA 50

    Well as you can see the big difference between yesterday and today!
    After using Stabilizer, Pucks and Shock on the 17th/18th...the CYA went through the roof! I drained a 1/4 of the pool this morning and then 1/3 this afternoon, that got my CYA in line. I am running the overnight chlorine test tonight to ensure there is nothing eating my chlorine, pump is on but SWG is off. I am VERY certain nothing is eating it as I havent had a big drop in Free Chlorine and it is maintaining itself.

    So having said all that I look forward to your advise on what to do next to get it sparking clear and all numbers in line. I fully believe in the BBB method after reading through about it!

    And yes, I will be ordering the TF-100 today or tomorrow.

    Thanks!
    Nikolas
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Tested this morning.

    July 22
    Hardness 250
    TC 3
    FC 15
    Bromine 25
    PH 7.2
    TA 160
    CYA ~60

    So there is nothing eating chlorine, now on to the next steps.
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Hi, Nik,

    YOu have several things that are a little mixed up.....we can solve those pretty easily.

    First, tell us how your water looks and what you are trying to accomplish.....i.e. Is it still cloudy? Does it have any hint of green? Are you running your pump 24/7 and cleaning your cartridge? Has the pool been getting better or worse? How much have you read in Pool School?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Water has NO Green to it at all, it is a blue intex liner and the water is a cloudy light(sky) blue color. Goal is to make it clear again.
    Pump is running nonstop and circulates entire pool about every 75-90 minutes(5K gallon pool and 4K gph pump) Cartridge is cleaned at least 2-3 times a day. I have a cartridge skin that allows the actual cartridge to stay clean and the skin collects everything, a 1 minute rinse makes it like new again. The skin is a VERY VERY light shade of green(almost unnoticeable) after 6-8 hours of heavy play and 16-24 hours if noone is in pool.

    Pool school has been ready but I will be re-reading today after having a better understanding of numbers as of yesterday.

    I drained 1/4 then refilled and then drained 1/3 and refilled yesterday, this essentially resulted in a 1/2 drain yesterday without drying the well out. After this the pool is more clear but still cloudy.
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Just did another check and it looks like what I actually did was a 20% then a 33% drain and refill resulting in a 40% net gain of fresh water. The temp has dropped from 89 to 81 at the moment due to the new well water being added. Temps today are 96 and tomorrow 98 so I feel confident it will warm up by our normal swim time of 6pm or so. The 16 mil solar cover does its job pretty well. Also I can see the pattern on the pool floor if the water is still.

    I have the Pump/Filter on but not the SWG.
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    After re-reading Pool School I realize my TA is WAAY high. I have some PH Down on hand but no muriatic acid, I will make the switch to MA after I run through my Sodium bisulfate supply. How much bisulfate should I add to lower the TA? I do not see any calculators to give me a firm number
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    I found this bit of info

    Typically, by adding 24 oz (1 ½ LBS) of pH Decreaser (Sodium Bisulfate) per 10,000 gallons of water the Alkalinity will be decreased by 10 ppm. If the Alkalinity is extremely high, then the Alkalinity must be lowered in increments, but again, never adding more than 24 oz (1 ½ LBS) of pH Decreaser per 10,000 gallons of water AT ONE TIME.

    Given my numbers I will need a fair amount. In my 5K AGP this should result in a 20ppm decrease per application.
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    OK, Thanks. That gives us a much better picture.

    In no significant order.....

    1. Disregard Bromine....you only have chlorine in your pool.

    2. Don't do the CH test but perhaps once monthly....it won't change normally

    3. Your pH and TA are fine for now.....we'll adjust TA a little later.

    4. CYA is fine at 50ppm.......leave it there

    5. Keep testing and adding Chlorine.....enough so so that you stay at 20-24ppm FC.

    6. Please tell us how you are testing chlorine and CYA. Be as specific as you can as to the type of test you are using.

    7. Don't worry about the overnight FC loss test for a few more days.

    It appears to me that you are in the last few days of the shock process (Read in Pool School how shocking is a process rather than a one-time dosage) Despite your test results, for now, I think you still have a little algae that you have to get rid of by holding your FC up around 20-24ppm until the water is crystal clear.

    The last few days of the process are characterized by ever-diminishing cloudiness in the pool that can be maddeningly slow but you should see progress each day. (if you keep your FC up)
    Post back with questions and we'll help you get that pool crystal clear....you are not far away from that now.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Code:
    Decrease	 GALLONS IN POOL
    (ppm)  1,000    	5,000       10,000    15,000      20,000       25,000    	50,000
    10	0.21 lbs.	1.06 lbs.	2.13 lbs.	3.19 lbs.	4.25 lbs.	5.31 lbs.	10.63 lbs.
    20	0.43 lbs.	2.13 lbs.	4.25 lbs.	6.38 lbs.	8.50 lbs.	10.63 lbs	21.25 lbs.
    30	0.64 lbs.	3.19 lbs.	6.38 lbs.	9.56 lbs.	12.75 lbs	15.94 lbs	31.88 lbs.
    40	0.85 lbs.	4.25 lbs.	8.50 lbs.	12.75 lbs	17.00 lbs	21.25 lbs   42.50 lbs.
    50	1.06 lbs.	5.31 lbs.	10.63 lbs	15.94 lbs   21.25 lbs   26.56 lbs	53.13 lbs
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    For now, disregard that TA....we'll help you fix it later.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    OK, Thanks. That gives us a much better picture.

    In no significant order.....

    1. Disregard Bromine....you only have chlorine in your pool.

    2. Don't do the CH test but perhaps once monthly....it won't change normally

    3. Your pH and TA are fine for now.....we'll adjust TA a little later.

    4. CYA is fine at 50ppm.......leave it there

    5. Keep testing and adding Chlorine.....enough so so that you stay at 20-24ppm FC.Ok, so I will not sorry about TA for now, I will run the SWG continuously and add some clorox to the pool.

    6. Please tell us how you are testing chlorine and CYA. Be as specific as you can as to the type of test you are using. I was using a black dot test for the CYA from HTH until the TF100 arrives, I just used the last of the reagent though. Chlorine testing was done via strips(I know I know)

    7. Don't worry about the overnight FC loss test for a few more days.

    It appears to me that you are in the last few days of the shock process (Read in Pool School how shocking is a process rather than a one-time dosage) Despite your test results, for now, I think you still have a little algae that you have to get rid of by holding your FC up around 20-24ppm until the water is crystal clear.

    The last few days of the process are characterized by ever-diminishing cloudiness in the pool that can be maddeningly slow but you should see progress each day. (if you keep your FC up)
    Post back with questions and we'll help you get that pool crystal clear....you are not far away from that now.
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    The CYA test in the TF-100 is the same principle but it will have a larger, more accurate view tube. I am glad you were not using strips for the CYA test.....they are terrible usually.

    The Strips are also not to good for chlorine. When you get your kit, you will be able to test right down to .2ppm accuracy if you want. (You won't need to....do the normal test to .5ppm accuracy).

    Post those numbers up from the kit as soon as you get them and we'll check those reults. Meanwhile, keep your FC up in that range as best you can with the strips.

    I forgot to tell you....nice upgrade on the pump!! It's very important to have good filtration and the Intex pools are pretty well known for being troublesome with the pump and filter that comes with them. Very smart!!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Thx, just ordered the TF-100 kit.
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Running 8-10 hours a day has resulted in the following.(still waiting on TF-100)


    July 22
    Hardness 250
    TC 4
    FC 15
    Bromine 25
    PH 7.4
    TA 90
    CYA 50~(unreliable test strip test)

    I expect the kit to ship out tomorrow and arrive mid week.
    Running the SWG when the pump is running most of the time.
    I can actually see the bottom of the pool now but its not 100% yet.
    Anything I should be doing besides this until the kit arrives?
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Your TF Kit will hopefully be there soon -- they have terrific customer service and fast turn around. In the meantime, could you take your water to a pool store for check? Although not the best, they might be better than strips. I might be missing something, but I don't think you can have an FC of 15 and a TC of 4. TC (total chlorine) is the sum of FC (free chlorine) and CC (combined chlorine). As duraleigh says, you'll want to keep your FC up, so you need to figure out what you have so you can add enough chlorine to get to the 20-24 duraleigh suggests. I suppose you could use the pool calculator and put in a lowish number for FC and put in 20 as your target and add that amount of bleach - might end up being a lot more than you need, but no harm should come of it.
    POOL: Intex ultra new in 2014 (32 x 16 x 52) (seasonal; on concrete pad covered with 1.5" extruded or whatever foam insulation sheets - ugly, but comfy); added a through-wall skimmer; I add salt for feel. EQUIPMENT: Pentair SuperFlo pump (1HP, 2SPD); Pentair cartridge filter (200 sq. ft); Pentair MasterTemp natural gas heater (400,000 btu) Climate/Location: Eastern Nebraska

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    I never did understand my the huge variance in my FC TC levels, the FC is always way off the chart and diluting in 1/2 ended up between 7-9. I'm sure the kit will yield true numbers for us to actually work with.
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Kit has arrived and the following are my results

    7/29
    FC 9
    CC .5-1(1 drop made it ALMOST perfectly clear)
    pH 7.2
    TA - 90
    CH 250? It turned a shade of indigo, more than blue)\
    CYA 70
    Water temp 84*

    Pump has been running as much as possible(16 hours a day or so. No chemicals added in a week, pool is more clear than ever this year but still a TING cloudy. I have turned the pump return jet up to create bubbles and raise the pH level.

    What steps do you recommend next?
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Well, I'm no pro -- still a newbie. All the numbers look okay to me, but I don't know anything about CH. Pool School has up to 300 as "recommended level" so I assume your 250 is not causing clouding. Thus, if it were me, I'd go up to shock level (28 FC) tonight and see how it looks after a day of running the pump. Don't know about the 4000 gph intex pump, but on the others we usually recommend running them 24/7 with the exception of when people are swimming. I'd then keep it on the high side throughout the day tomorrow and do an overnight loss test tomorrow night. I'm sure others will be here shortly to correct any of the above as needed.
    POOL: Intex ultra new in 2014 (32 x 16 x 52) (seasonal; on concrete pad covered with 1.5" extruded or whatever foam insulation sheets - ugly, but comfy); added a through-wall skimmer; I add salt for feel. EQUIPMENT: Pentair SuperFlo pump (1HP, 2SPD); Pentair cartridge filter (200 sq. ft); Pentair MasterTemp natural gas heater (400,000 btu) Climate/Location: Eastern Nebraska

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    Don't worry about your CH. It is okay.

    Since you have > 0.5 CC, you need to shock your pool. Your CYA is 70 so this means that you need to raise your FC to 28, which is your shock level. Continue shocking until, your CC is 0.5 or less, you lose no more than 1 ppm FC overnight, and your pool water is clear.

    Please use bleach to raise your FC. Your SWG can't handle that type of output.

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Newbie with Cloudy Water

    New results as of today.


    7/30
    FC 6
    CC 0
    TC 6
    pH 7.5
    TA - 80
    CH - Never turned red, only purple
    CYA 70/75
    Water temp 84*

    I redid the FC/CC test again to ensure I did it right after turning up 0 CC
    I can now see te items on the bottom of the pool even when the pump is running, still not perfectly clear though.
    29000 Gallon IG vinyl w/ SWG
    Pentair S220T

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