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Thread: low alkalinity and high ph

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    low alkalinity and high ph

    Low alkalinity & high ph. Alkalinity bout 50 & ph 8.3 Keep adding baking soda-then ph minus. Water tested at 2 major chains. I buy & add all chemicals & right back where I started 24hrs later. 27ft 4.6 ft vinyl, hayward missile cartridge. Been at it 6wks, vacumed out 6in & refilled last week. No debris just green algea. Can anyone help? Pool about 5 years old. Southwestern Pa. Water samples say everything else ok.
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Testing and Balancing Your water

    welcome to TFP.

    You should invest in a good test kit, such as the Tf100 or the taylor k2006.

    If you're TA is at 50 (pool stores are known to be way off) you should raise your TA with baking soda to around 90. Then add enough muratic acid to lower PH from 8.3 to 7.6. You can use poolcalculator.com to figure out the dosages. I'm guessing once you add the acid, it will bring your TA to around 70-80, which would be just fine for now.

    Read Pool School for more info on adding chemicals and it's effects. You will need a good test kit though.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Thanks. The water sample is done on the computer so I figured is was accurate. Do you disolve the baking soda & should the filter be running when I put it in? How long do you wait to test the alkalinity again? As for the Muratic acid, where do I get it & how do you use it(pool school)? Then what and when for chlorine? The pool store says put this in, wait 15min then put this in, then in 4 hrs add this! Started trying to research myself. Found this site on ASK.
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Always have the pump running for at least an hour or two after adding chems. (and an hour before testing).

    Pour baking soda in front of the return, slowly and brush with your brush/pole combo. Or predissolve in a bucket of water.

    Muratic acid can be found at pool stores, home depot, lowes, etc. places with pool departments but sometimes they stock it in the paint department. There are various strengths so check the labels.

    I would add the baking soda, wait 15 minutes, add the acid and let it circulate for a 3-4 hours and retest everything. (do you have your own kit?)

    Chlorine is added nightly (if using bleach) pour slowly in front of the return and leave it running for a couple hours to circulate.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    How much aeration does your pool have? Do you have a fountain, or waterfall, or negative edge, or anything else like that which creates aeration?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    No fountains or anything. Just a plain round pool. Trying the baking soda, acid, bleach today.
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Did you say you had algae?

    Can not having enough chlorine in the water raise the pH, for example if you're fighting a nascent algae bloom or have a heavy bathing load?
    90k litres, outdoor in ground pool, concrete, painted (I hate paint)
    Sta-Rite 5P2R 1.5 Hp pump, undersized sand filter (needs upgrading).

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    No one has been in the pool. Yes I have algea because I have not been able to get the water balanced. Chlorine does not hold more than 12 hours. Went through at least 30 bags shock. The green algea is not clinging to wall, pool is still vacumed daily. Working on balance today, keeping my fingers crossed!
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Can you post a full set of test results?

    Have you read: pool-school/defeating_algae ?

    I'm not able to say what to do next as I'm fairly new to pools, but if you post your test results, I'm sure someone will be along to help...
    90k litres, outdoor in ground pool, concrete, painted (I hate paint)
    Sta-Rite 5P2R 1.5 Hp pump, undersized sand filter (needs upgrading).

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Getting a full set of test results is important. I suspect that your CYA level is either too high or two low, either of which could cause all of your chlorine to vanish.

    As dmanb2b said right off, nothing will help more than getting a top quality test kit.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Pool store had me add stabilizer last week, it was ok till I vacumed the bottom out, then it was low. If I am starting to understand, when I was adding the pool store shock(3 bags-1 time they said use 5 bags) it was raising my ph(trichlor). Have used the pool calculator. Done the baking soda at 1pm today. Acid at 330pm today. Should I go ahead and add bleach or wait to test water in 3-4 hours for ph & ta? Thought I read that bleach does not affect the ph & ta. Done alot of reading-cramming! Yes I am ordering my own test kit. Up against the weekend, so I would like to keep working on pool till then. My filter is running. Acid & test b 4 bleach or acid & bleach then test in 4 hours?
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Remember that the PH test results are invalid if the FC level is higher than 10.

    Bring the PH down first. You can test the PH again about an hour after adding chemicals. You want to get the PH in range before doing anything else if you can do it soon (though add chlorine tonight regardless).

    After PH is in range, raise the TA, wait a few minutes and then add chlorine.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    New test results;
    Ph 7.8
    Ta 98
    CYA 80
    TC 0.6
    FC 0
    Ended up using gallon of acid(20 baume,31.45%), 15lb baking soda, & 182oz of bleach(6%) Yesterday.
    Todays results are the best I got so far.
    ANY IDEAS????
    AG, 27ft 54in, hayward cartridge
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    You are doing great. Lower the PH further, to around 7.4ish and keep shocking (adding lots of chlorine). When fighting algae, the more frequently you test and raise the FC level back up to shock level, the sooner you will kill all the algae.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    THANKS.
    Will the Ph rise when I shock with bleach? Thought I read that somewhere.
    If it does do I treat with acid again before I keep shocking with bleach?
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Will the Ph rise when I shock with bleach? Thought I read that somewhere.
    It'll rise a little when you put it in but it will come back down soon. So, disreagrd that and treat the dosage like it is pH neutral because it is.....it just takes a little time to become neutral.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Water is turning blue. Can't see the bottom yet, but it looks better.
    Have not received my test kit yet, expecting anyday now.
    New numbers from computer test at pool store.
    CYA 65
    TC 2.5
    FC 2.3
    Ph 7.4
    TA 96
    Tot Hardness 247 (not sure what this is)
    Not sure if I am using the pool calculator right, how do I figure out the GOAL(Target) NUMBER.
    CYA 65=FC Shock 24-25????????
    Just stocked up on bleach.
    I know I need to raise & hold the chlorine.
    Then vacume??? Bleach??? Vacume??? etc. till clear?????
    AG, 27ft, vinyl, round 52 inch,
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    For day to day target numbers, see our Recommended Levels article at Pool School.

    With CYA at 65, shock level is anywhere from 20 to 25.

    While shocking you want to brush every day and vacuum up any obvious debris when you can.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    THANKS!!!!!!
    That was what I figured, just wasn't sure if I did it right. Plan on bleaching & vacuming!!!!
    LOVE THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!!!
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: low alkalinity and high ph

    Got my TF-100.
    CYA 30. Did the test 2x, came up with same results. Do you shake bottle, sit for 30 sec then another shake, then use? Kept adding till I could no longer see black dot while looking down on it. Last Pool store result on 2 days ago was 65. Did I do it right? Do I keep puting in drops till dot completely gone, or when cloudy shadow of it?????
    Trying to do the TA test now. Am I watching for the whole solution to turn red or the drop when it hits the solution?????
    If I understand this right I can't test Ph cause I am at shock level with chlorine.
    Pool was cloudy blue this morning till I vacumed, bringing up some light green still. Off work today, so trying to figure it all out. Back 2 work tom.
    Figure I would try to get right cya reading today-bleaching for cya 65 now.
    Wanted to check TA, then use pool calculator to figure out FC level.
    Should I check any other test today?
    Plan of action?
    AG 27ft, 52in, vinyl, cartridge filter
    AG, 27ft round, 52in, Vinyl, Hayward Cartridge, BBB Method, Well Water, TF-100 Test Kit

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