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Thread: I need serious help.

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    I need serious help.

    OK my pool has reached a light solid shade green, I put almost 2000 oz. of 6% bleach in and no change. I tested and hour after I put the bleach in and the cl was off the chart. I tested again tonight and its at a 5. with a ph of 7.2 and a TA of 120. I tested for CYA and it didn't even register which I mean below 30 because my test never clouded at all so the dot never disappeared. I checked for hardness which at first I thought was 0 also but as I was writing my info down it turned a light pink color (supposed to turn red) so I proceeded further with the test to turn it blue (which it turned a pale blue) and ended up with a result of 160. but I don't know if this is correct. Also when I go out at night and shine the flash light down in the water I can see white looking flakes. Its gross. When we first opened the pool put in 4 one pound bags of super shock I got at my local pool store. Thats what got it to the light solid green. Oh and also i had my water tested and they said I had high phosphates (1700) so I bought $48 bottle of remover guess what It did nothing went back 2 days later still tested at 1700. My boys are getting anxious to get in and I am getting frustrated.
    Pool is in full sun, with pine trees near by.

    13500 gallon
    Vinyl lined older Dough Boy.
    3/4 horse sand filter

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: I need serious help.

    First off you need a good quality test kit so you can test FC above 5 and dose your pool accurately. The TF 100 and the Taylor K2006 are the best. The TF 100 comes with larger quantities of testing materials which makes it the better value. If you have a drop based kit and just need the FAS-DPD test for chlorine you can order that from tftestkits also.

    You need to bring your pool to shock level and keep it there until you pass the overnight test. According to the pool calculator, your shock level based on the results in your post is 10. Add enough bleach to raise the FC to 10 and check it every hour or so until the FC starts to hold.

    Since your CYA is very low, the sun will burn off the FC quickly. You need to add enough CYA to have 30 ppm in your water. You can buy CYA granules and put them in a sock hanging in front of a return until it all dissolves. 24 hours after you add the CYA to the pool, assume it is active in your pool even though it won't register on a test for about a week, and dose your pool accordingly.

    Keep the pump running 24/7 during the shock process and backwash as needed. Frequent brushing and vacuuming daily will help speed the process a little. Vacuum to waste if possible.
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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: I need serious help.

    A good test kit would make things a lot easier, you don't say what kind you have now, but do imply you have a CYA test kit. If you have a standard Chlorine test kit that only reads to 5 ppm, when shocking you can add 2 parts non-chlorinated water to 1 part pool water when doing the test and multiply the results by 3 to get a true idea of your shocking FC level. You want to maintain it at shock level which would be 12.2 if your CYA is 30 ppm (or 8.3 for CYA of 20), if your tester never clouded at all I would work with the 6 ppm (CYA of 10), if it clouded slightly I would assume CYA of 20 and shock at 9 ppm. Use bleach, raise to above shock level and retest hourly, add bleach as needed to maintain shock level, if demand starts dropping after a few hours test every 2 hours, and add as needed. Keep doing this until your FC does not drop more than 1 ppm overnight (dark at night till dark in the morning).


    Consider this like a war, the chlorine is trying to kill off the algae faster than the algae can multiply. If you don't win and leave troops (chlorine) around and don't kill all of the algae it will just regroup and start multiplying again. So far what you have done with dumping all the bleach in at once is a massive troop surge, but it was not maintained long enough to finish the job. (this is starting to sound a bit too much like U.S. foreign policy for this message board). So you want to get more bleach in there and get it there as soon as possible, otherwise the headway you may have made before will be lost to the algae multiplying.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: I need serious help.

    Not to beat a dead horse, but yes, you need a better test kit in order to do this right. The TF100 (link in my sig) is an excellent one.

    Do not buy anymore products from the pool store. Phosphates may be problems in protected watersheds but they are completely irrelevant in swimming pools. We have folks here who run with phos levels above 3000 and have no problems.

    Do bring your CYA to at least 30. This will give your pool some protection against FC loss to the sun. Once you start adding CYA, your shock level will be a FC of 12. You want to bring your FC to 12 and keep it there. Brush, run the filter 24/7 (backwashing when needed), and keep that FC at 12 until your water is clear, you lose no more than 1 ppm FC overnight, and your CC is 0.5 or less. Use only bleach to shock your pool as it is easier to measure and dose and it doesn't add anything else that you don't want to your water.

    The more disciplined you are at keeping your FC at shock level until you are finished will dictate how fast the pool clears. Do it right and it will take you a few days. Don't do it right and you will be trying to get rid of algae all summer long. We can get you clear, but you will really have to hit things hard and follow our directions to a tee. Read Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis for more information.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: I need serious help.

    I agree you need to raise the CYA, but I would fight one thing at a time, and deal with the low CYA after the pool is no longer green.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: I need serious help.

    Ok thank you.I will do that. Somewhere along the line i missed the part of keeping the shock level up I thought all I had to do is nail it and that was good. My local pool store seemed to think along the same lines as I was thinking, now I realize they may not be all that honest, and just want to make a buck. So could you give me an estimate of how much bleach I should start with I am new to this whole process.
    We put the pool up last year and had similar problems, not the solid light green though.
    I cant see the bottom of the pool to tell if I have it all vacuumed. I have made alot of trips around the pool the last week brushing and vacuuming.
    My test kit is the hth 6 way. I know I need a better one but funds are limited. To be honest. Thats why I looked on the net for a less expensive way to fix our pool. I found this sight and have been reading it the last few days, its great, I guess I hit info overload and missed some key points.
    I just checked the CL again doing the 2 to 1 ratio and it reads 1. Yesterday after my over zealous attack it turned orange after first drop. So now what do I do. Any info is awesome. Bobbi
    13500 gallons
    older Dough Boy
    3/4 horse sand filter, runs 24/7

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    Re: I need serious help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    I agree you need to raise the CYA, but I would fight one thing at a time, and deal with the low CYA after the pool is no longer green.

    Ike
    I disagree with that suggestion and here's why.

    In a pool that is clean with no CYA, no CC, no algae, no other contaminants being present, you will stand to lose pretty much all of your FC in roughly an hour to sunlight. Now, in a dirty pool (which the original poster has), not only are you fighting the consumption of FC by the UV rays of the sun as soon as it is added, but also the consumption of FC by the organic contaminants themselves. No CYA and algae and your FC is wiped out in mere minutes.

    A small amount of CYA (30 ppm) is a good thing in this situation as it helps the FC stick around longer than it would without it.

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    Re: I need serious help.

    Quote Originally Posted by 257WbyMag
    A small amount of CYA (30 ppm) is a good thing in this situation as it helps the FC stick around longer than it would without it.
    That is good advice though there are two exceptions to it (though that is not this particular situation).

    If the CYA dropped and there is unusually high (in a matter of minutes) chlorine demand in the pool, even at night, with the pool not full of obvious algae such that it seems that bacteria have converted CYA into ammonia, then it is better to hit hard with chlorine without CYA and adding the chlorine very frequently until one gets an FC reading. Once one has an FC reading, which means the bacteria is killed, then one can add CYA. If one adds CYA too soon, then the bacteria just have more "food" to feed on and you end up with more ammonia to get rid of.

    The other exception is when converting a Baquacil pool to a chlorine pool. CYA would slow down such conversion signficantly, especially in the early stages when the chlorine normally gets consumed fairly quickly such that the loss from sunlight is not that important. Once the pool gets to the fairly clear stage, then CYA can be added, though in low amounts (30 ppm) until the overnight FC loss becomes normal (<= 1 ppm).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: I need serious help.

    True Richard. I saw no indication that this was a baq conversion or a NH3 problem though.

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    Re: I need serious help.

    257 Weatherby, You do have a good point there, and it would probably be a good idea to add CYA, my concern is then trying to hit a moving target on shock level without a good test kit. Also without a good test kit if he adds enough CYA to bring it up 30 ppm does that then give us a level of 30, 40, or 50 ppm given all we know is the current CYA is below 30, and we are guessing on how much. Perhaps given our unknowns and current testing limits in this case, it would be best to add 20 ppm CYA assuming 0 in the pool now, and treat with shock level assuming 40 ppm in case it is closer to 20 ppm instead of 0. Either way the sooner he gets to shock level the better, since CYA will take some time to dissolve.

    So we both agree buy some stabilizer (put it in an old sock and hang it in front of a return line), Pool calculator says 36 oz of dry CYA to bring your level to 20 ppm, or 54 oz to bring to 30 ppm (one container should be enough either way)

    As to how much bleach, that is a big question mark, if the store is nearby I would say start with 10- 15 gallons, if on the other hand it is a 5 mile hike to the nearest road, etc. buy more.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: I need serious help.

    I have BioGuard test stips to, i just took a reading and it says.
    FC at a 1
    PH at 7.4
    TA of 150
    Total Bromine 1
    Does this help in helping me.
    My husband and I are Weatherby fans also Me 7mm and him 300 mag.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: I need serious help.

    The sooner you get back to shock level the better, every hour of daylight the algae gets it is multiplying loosing any ground you may have gained with your 15 gallons of bleach yesterday
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: I need serious help.

    Alright I put in 1 large jug of bleach waited about 20 min. tested to where the cl level was it was at a 2 CL using the 2 to 1 ratio. So I added 1 more large jug and waited 1 hour, 15 CL oops I got it to high I think, one of you suggested an 8, another a 10, and think and another a 12. Waited one more hour and still at a 15 CL. it seems to be taking 2 hours before I can see a change. I have swept and vacuumed most of the day. At times like early this evening it almost looks like its getting darker not lighter. Is that normal. I also put the sock with the stabilizer in it on the edge I saw no point in trying to put it to close to the return sense I had the vacuum hooked up. But I will after I make my last pass before its completely black outside. I hope I am getting close I am not a very patient person, I have been at this all week.

    24 round above ground older dough boy
    13500 gallons
    3/4 horse sand filter.

  14. Back To Top    #14
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    Re: I need serious help.

    Ok, sounds like you may be well on your way, your high dose of chlorine on Friday probably helped some. It is normal to see a color change as the algae dies off, it may go from green to brown or gray at that point it is a matter of letting the filtration do its job and remove the dead algae. Maintain shock level all day tomorrow then see if it drops more than 1 ppm overnight (dark until dark). If it does drop more than 1 ppm overnight bring back to shock level and keep it there until the next night, repeat test. You can also check to compare level at sunset to level before bed time if you have already had 1ppm drop since sunset you can short cut things and bring back to shock level then. You will need to keep your filter running 24x7 and cleaned until the water clears up.

    Your shock level changes with your CYA level

    CYA of 20 ppm your shock level is 8 FC

    CYA of 40 ppm your shock level is 16 FC

    Since your in the process of adding stabilizer/CYA the shock level will rise as it dissolves.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: I need serious help.

    First off I just want to thank you for your time.
    I just checked as far as I can tell I think its a 9 CL this morning. I just added 96 more oz. Is there a test that doesn't rely on the yellow spectrum I have a vary hard time telling the difference some times? How long before I should check again this morning? I did it at 6:45 am pacific time.

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    Re: I need serious help.

    The FAS-DPD chlorine test reliably measures FC and CC levels from 0 to 50 +-0.5 without requiring comparison to a color chart. All you need to do is add drops till the color changes from pink to clear. This test is available various places on the Internet, including TFTestKits.net, or you can get is as part of their full TF-100 test kit.
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  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: I need serious help.

    I am so excited I can see the bottom of the pool it is still hazy but I have not been able to do this so far. So does this mean Im getting close? I checked CL levels again at 8 Right at 15. So I did not add any more bleach. I am so excited of being able to see the bottom I dont want to vacuum and stir any thing up. But I know I have to. I think? Or should I let it rest?

  18. Back To Top    #18
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    Re: I need serious help.

    Yes, you are getting closer. If you see a lot of crud on the bottom, yes you should vacume it up. But the trick is to go VERY SLOWLY. and I mean VERY!

    Keep that chlorine up another day and try to get it sparkling .... keep us posted.
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    Re: I need serious help.

    Ok I had it almost clear just a slight cloudiness to it. So I vacuumed a few areas that I saw that need vacuumed and to my horror, I noticed the water getting cloudy I looked around and there was brownish colored water coming out of my return. I was so focused on go slow and even who know how long it had been doing that. I have backwashed and it comes out clear and very slow. ??????? I feel like I just went back 50 paces. Now its brown and cloudy.
    24*4 round above ground Older Doughboy.
    3/4 horse magna Flow sand filter.
    13500 gallons

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