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Thread: Balance as Prep for SWG system

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    Balance as Prep for SWG system

    Here are my current #s
    FC 3
    CC 0
    TC 3
    PH 7.4
    TA 100
    CH 230
    CYA 46
    Temp 83

    I will be converting to an SWG system and am looking for where to start. I know where the numbers should be for the salt system .. based on Pool School and other posts, but where do I start. Add salt first? Get salt to correct level, and than adjust other chemistry. ?
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    Actually, the Pool School "Balance for SWG" is pretty specific here on what order to attack it. My concern is that the numbers specified by the SWG manufacturer state different goals. Which should I follow the manufacturer or TFP. I am inclined to follow TFP for all except the salt level. The unit id the Circupool RJ45. Here are the differences:

    CYA: MfR 30-60 TFP 70-80
    PH: Mfr 7.2-7.8 TFP 7.5-7.6
    TA: Mfr 100-200 TFP 60-90
    CH: Mfr 200-300 TFP 50+ for vinyl

    Your thoughts?
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    You should not be too concerned with the differences or which one to chose. Both sets of numbers are personal preference and neither will hurt the SWG. For example, CYA has no effect on the corrosiveness or scaling potential of the water so the SWG could care less. For a SWG it is recommended that you go into the 70 - 80 ppm range simply to save money on energy and to save on cell life. Ph, not a whole lot of difference between the two recommendations and you will find yourself floating throughout both ranges from time to time. TA, in my experience with my SWG it needs to be lower than what is being shown by the mfg because the SWG tends to make the pH drift up. Mine is around 70, I have a SWG, and it still goes up. It would go up a lot faster if my TA were anywhere near where your mfg is saying. CH, is one that I cannot speak to and maybe one of the experts can chime in.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    I agree with benavidescj: Do the higher (TFP) CYA and the lower (TFP) TA for sure.

    Your current CH is fine where it is based on both recommendations, so don't worry about it.

    For the upper limit on pH for TFP you put 7.6. It is really 7.8, which makes the option:

    • PH: Mfr 7.2-7.8 TFP 7.5-7.8


    Your pH will rise, so with the TFP recommendation you just don't bring it as low when you add acid. I prefer this personally, and actually keep mine up around 7.8 all the time.

    ETA: As for the TA, it will fall on its own with regular additions of muriatic acid for pH. There is really no hurry to do this before going SWCG.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    This is what is listed under Pool School for balancing your SWG:

    Adjust your pH to 7.5-7.6 and not any lower. Monitor your pH and when it climbs to 7.8 add acid to lower it back to 7.5-7.6 (This is also IMPORTANT!)

    Though, I do see a lot of posts of people that keep it at the higher 7.8 #.
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    I shouldn't be giving advice to a Yankees fan anyway.

    I just went to the recommended levels page for the info. It is really all saying the same thing. 7.5 - 7.8 is perfectly fine. It becomes a function of where your pool wants to be and how much you want to fight it. With borates in my pH likes to be a little high and I stopped trying to keep it so low. Just like I try to not get excited when the Red Sox get a 1/2 game lead because I know they are going to be 5 games back at the all-star break.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    I knew my avatar would get me in trouble some day!

    Bear with me ... I'm still learning .. so I tend to get a bit too locked in on specific #'s.

    BTW, I was cheering for Big Poppy to get a hit ...than he did and on the next hit.... I was cheering for him to wake up and run to second base!!

    I am just a little nervous about converting to the salt system and regretting it.

    Thanks for your help!
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    We don't recommend a salt level, you need to use the one recommended by your SWG (they vary).

    For the rest, other levels will work, but you will have more stable levels with fewer chances of something going wrong if you follow our recommendations.

    The PH will be more stable if TA is fairly low (60 to 70) and PH is around 7.7 to 7.8. Lower PH or high TA will both result in the PH rising more quickly.

    CYA around 70 to 80 helps minimize the amount of PH drift and extends the lifetime of your SWG cell.

    In a vinyl pool, CH around 50 to 300 are all fine. The only difference between 50 and 200 is the money saved by not bothering to raise the CH level. CH higher than 300 starts to cause some risk of calcium scaling.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    Based on the fact that my CYA is close to 50 right now, should I add stabelizer to get it to 70 when adding salt before starting the SWG? I am using pucks now, but won't get it up to 70 in a week.
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    Yes, I would add CYA to raise CYA to around 70.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    Why does it not require a larger amount of FC with the SWG at CYA of 70-80 than it does with a non SWG at that same level CYA?
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    It dosn't, the CYA for 70 and non-SWG is 5 - 8 ppm. For SWG it is 3 -5 ppm.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    I incorrectly asked the question. I really wanted to know Why the FC range does change?
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    Ah, well since the SWG tends to maintain a more constant level of FC it has been shown that the FC levels when using a SWG can be lower and still keep algae at bay. I like to keep mine up a little from the recommendation just for peace of mind. The recommendation for my pool is 3 - 5 ppm and I tend to keep it 4 - 6. Maybe one of the experts can give you a more technical answer.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    What is the best way to lower my TA from 100 to about 75-80? Dry Acid or liquid?
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    You want to use muriatic acid. Is is usually cheaper than dry acid and doesn't add anything you don't want (sulphur).

    There is a pool school article here. It is a process: cycles of lowering both pH and TA with acid and aerating to bring pH up without raising TA.

    Like I said before; you can lower TA purposefully if you want to, but it will come down on its own with regular additions of acid which are needed to keep pH in check. Your choice.

    ETA: Just to be clear: you can't lower TA all at once because you don't want your pH below 7.0. It has to be done in steps. Either big steps following the lowering TA instructuions, or small steps with normal acid additions to keep pH in range.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    Ok, so I will concentrate on getting the CYA up and than the salt level.

    The article says that aeration can be provided by a SWG, fountain, etc. .. how does that happen with a SWG?
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    hydrogen gas bubbles produced by the SWG aerate the water and drive out carbon dioxide that raises the pH
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    For a Sox fan, you sure do know a lot ! :P

    TGIF

    Thx
    18x36 IG 26,000 gal, Vinyl Liner, 24" Sand filter Hayward S224T, Jandy AE3000 heatpump and 1.5 HP SuperPump. Circupool RJ45 SWG

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: Balance as Prep for SWG system

    For a Yankees fan you don't seem like too much of a jerk.

    Have a great weekend and enjoy that pool
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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