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Thread: A little help with measurements.

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    A little help with measurements.

    Talk about feeling like a rookie. I just finished a system flush and will be cleaning and waxing it on friday. I did read all the info on using bromine in my spa and will be following the 3 step method and even went out and purchased a taylor k-2106(fas-DPD Bromine) to do it right. The products i have on hand are Marquis spas ph & alkalinity up and also a down one, Solus Chlorine-free oxidizer, suncoast stop yellow(99% sodium bromide) and a bucket of bromine tablets. There is a couple of sparkle stabilized chlorinator granules containers but i dont think i will be using them in this, at least i dont think so. Its a 580gal maxxus spa and a fresh fill. The instructions on the mod squad posting says that i am supposed to adjust TA and PH and add calcium or metal sequesterant if needed. Is TA total alkalinity? If so does ph & TA go up and down at the same time since the product i have does either up or down on both. The other issue i have is this, Mod squad said to establish the bromine reserve bank by adding sodium bromide first then the tablets to maintain, but the container i have (Suncoast stop yellow} says that 1 cap full (4oz) per 10,000 gal. So how am i to determine how much product for a 580 gal spa? Whats with the spa dealer telling me to use a box of baking powder on the first fill? I really want to get this right the first time and i am reading the booklet that came with the test kit, the products instructions on the containers and the posting by mod squad and trying to make it all fit together so i can make heads and tail of it all without growing a second arm in my spa. Thanks ahead for any input guys.

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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Hi Adrian,
    First thing I would do is to test all key factors of the fresh fill to see what's needed to balance the water first. Use the pool calculator to make the necessary adjustments for the TA, PH, CH. I would then follow the advice you've been reading from Mod squad. The Pool School forum also has all the info on steps to take on balancing the water chemistry.
    Post initial results and I'm sure there will be many people who will assist you.
    Barry
    Sundance Hot Tub 365 gal, acrylic
    (2) 2.5 hp pumps
    ozonator
    Northwest Ohio resident

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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    ok i will start there thank you.

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Adrian, TA is Total Alkalinity and it is used to keep the Ph from drifting up or down. In some cases, like in my hot tub if it is 100ppm I tend to get an upward drift in the Ph. So I tend to keep mine at about 70 ppm. You have to play with this but try to keep it somewhere between 70 - 90+, it really depends on your current water chemistry.

    As far as the bromine bank goes, you are using a product that is 99% sodium bromide. You want to create a bank that is around 30ppm sodium bromide. With the product you have it is going to take around 2.25 oz to create 30 ppm, by my calculation.

    You can add calcium and adjust your pH using the pool calculator at http://www.poolcalculator.com/. Simply put your spa size at the top, in your case 580 gal. Then put in the pH and TA that you measured with your test kit in the "Now" column and put your targets, say 7.4 for pH and 80 for your TA in the "Target" column and then click "Calculate". The calculator will tell you how much chemical to add (baking soda for TA and acid or borax, depending on which way you need to go with pH).

    Don't worry about the pool store telling you to add a box of baking powder. That is really a shoot from the hip recommendation and does not take into account what your current water chemistry is. I would just do what you are doing and ask your questions here and if you need some help just ask. If you don't get the response you are looking for just ask again.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Thank you benavidescj for taking the time to answer, Great info, I am doing as much reading and learning as i can. I finished up the cleaning and waxing when i got home from work today and Sat i will do the fill and install the new filter. I am amazed how spa dealers and pool supplys stores i have gone to say put this product and that product and have no idea what my water chemistry is to begin with, yet i come here and ALL say the same thing, get yourself a test kit and test first. I even had a pool cleaning guy tell me to sell the thing because they are nightmares to maintain. I have no idea how they stay in business providing bad info or not learning there trade. I have learned so much from reading old posts and following the suggestions you guys have given that i can not thank you enough, and the least i can do for the site is become a supporter, and thank you for making a spa rookie feel welcome.

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    ultra800_96's Avatar
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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Another handy tip I like is to check your water meter before & after the fill so you know exactly what your spa volume is. Makes it easier to plug the #'s into the pool calculator. Good Luck.
    12,900 Gal. 24' X 48" ABG Vinyl Round (17th Birthday)
    1HP Hayward Pump w/S180T Hayward Sand Filter
    AquaTrol RJ SWCG 2011 startup
    TFP Method since '09, TF100
    50ppm Borates, June '12

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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    I will do that next time i fill i checked back after i had started already filling. I did my first test and had 8.0 ph,90ppm TA, and 60ppm on the ch. slapped into the computer and called for acid which i did not have but i did put in 1/2 oz of the down ph and alka product and it dropped it a bit so i put a bit more last night and just 2 tables of bromine in the holder and let it sit over night. This morning i am at 7.6PH,70ppm TA and 70ppm on the ch. so im off to pinch a penny to acquire some calcium to bring it up now. I have not done the bromine bank yet untill the i get the calcium under control. The one thing i wanted to ask if i am suppossed to be doing all these measurements at a heated temp or at natural temp as im doing now. This is getting fun trying to get this right.

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Taking them heated or unheated is fine.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Nice numbers to start with, Adrian. The calculator is awesome for sure. Did you use the "traditional spa" option to plug in the suggested goal levels? takes the guess work out of it all and ensures water balance (CSI). Also, PH Down is dry acid and you will find you will periodically have to add this due to PH drift. Adding Borates will definitely help stabilize this though.
    Barry
    Sundance Hot Tub 365 gal, acrylic
    (2) 2.5 hp pumps
    ozonator
    Northwest Ohio resident

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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Talking about thinks going haywire fast i got back and put in calcium. I took in a water sample since i was going to buy calcium to see how close my number was to the test they run. They came out with the same results. They said to add 1.4 lbs of calcium and drop my ph down a bit. So i added the calcium, a tab of ph/alka down product and started my bromine bank, then i waited about and hour and turned on the heater and got it to 100f. Then i tested, these results was what came up now = ph 8.+ ,TA 50PPM, CH 230ppm. I see now how the PH would climb. I have to dump these mutiple issue products like my ph/alka down. It worked on my TA but it did nothing with the PH. Thanks for the tip on the calculator spa aspect did not notice that. I'm off to replace 26% of the water to handle the CH, and go pick up some dry acid and baking soda to have on hand. I will test after changing the water out and go from there. I will get this, one way or another lol, i will keep you guys posted thanks again.

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    It gets easier Adrian once you figure out how your particular spa handles the chemicals. Hang in there and soon you will know it like the back of your hand.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Agree - it does get easier and predictable. My current CH is 225 which I live with as long as I keep the TA with the target goal range and maintain control of the PH. I favor a negative CSI but still balanced to avoid scaling since my last Hot tub had alot of calcium buildup in my lines (prior to knowledge of TFP).....and yes - acid to lower PH and baking soda to keep TA from dropping to low.
    Barry
    Sundance Hot Tub 365 gal, acrylic
    (2) 2.5 hp pumps
    ozonator
    Northwest Ohio resident

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    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Your both right it is starting to all click together and i thank you both for helping me out on this. Something happen yesterday thats kind of weird. I purchased this spa used, It was a late 2007 model the gentleman bought it in 2008 used it about a year then had it drained and it just sat there for a year until i purchased it. I filled it and turned it on and little blackish brown chip like things started flying out the jets and some yellow ones, so i figured after reading, that i had biofilm and old chemicals in the system, so i started with a spa flush to remove it. Then i drained, cleaned, and wax the spa, installed new filter, filled and ran all the pumps and everything came out clean so thats where i started with chemical adjustments. As you recall i had to remove 26% of water to add new water for adjustment. I over filled it a bit yesterday about 3 inches and just drained it off. Then i figured i would run the pumps again to mix the fresh fill with the water that was there, to get a good reading on the test, so i turned on the first pump and wouldn't you know it, little blackish brown chips started flying out again. Whats strange is that i had run all the pumps off and on and not one chip was seen, yet at moment of the startup this time around (water was calm) they shot out the 2 quarter size small jets at the bottom side near the floor but not the main jets. I was thinking maybe that the filter was picking the things up and when i drained and refilled they released from the filter and where introduced back into the system. What is strange is that i have been working on this everyday since last week and had not seen any of these small black chips in my clear water. So i am back to square one clean out the filter and track down where those small jets go to, They almost look like small pieces of burned paper. I will keep you posted on what i find. Thank goodness i love trouble shooting. Adrian.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: A little help with measurements.

    Sounds like it could be calcium or lime buildup from the water that was left in the pumps or heater for those couple of years even though the tub was emptied. Flakes eventually coming loose. Again, before I learned about this site I had my water tested at the store and they didn't even care about CH. I have two sources of water - cistern (rain) and well. I brought the well water in and they pretty much told me it was fine so I used that for several years. I kept have to replace my small circulating pumps about every two to three years because it was losing pressure. This pump circulated water continually thru the filter and heater - which I also had to replace way too often due to buildup. After finding TFP and buying a good test kit I discovered my well water had a CH of 1800 ppm! Needless to say I was p----- reflecting on the prior years . I was constantly fighting cloudy water. I used bromine tabs with MPS as a shocking agent. Never won the battle. Oh, my first tub was used as well.
    Your flakes should eventually work themselves out.
    Barry
    Sundance Hot Tub 365 gal, acrylic
    (2) 2.5 hp pumps
    ozonator
    Northwest Ohio resident

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