Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Post Alage confusion, questions.

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Hi,

    Very new here, like everyone else it seems after finding out going to the pool store and doing what they suggest did not work. I have spent the past 2-3 weeks reading everything i can, in the Pool School, BBB, forums etc. Seeing everyone suggest buying test kits I purchased the Taylor 2006. Some background of the pool i know off hand. 20x40 in-ground pool, approx 22,000 gallons. SWG, Sand filter, hayward pump which has been running 24/7 for about two weeks now, any other info needed?

    I originally had a very bad algae problem, which now from reading on the forums about how to take care of it, with the help of the pool calculator, i believe it is gone. Finally got my CC to read .5 yesterday and has been for two days now. I am going to do one final overnight loss test to double check, as i was not home last night to do this. However the water is still extremely cloudy that I cannot see the floor of the pool. Could it be because the numbers are not correct? Or because i originally added Soda Ash as told by the pool store (mistake)?

    However i also seem to be having some problems/confusion or unsure of what to do from reading in so much info and would hope someone could help me out. Last week (Thursday, not this past one) I added in 12 lbs of HTH Walmart Stabalizer as my CYA was at 30. Because of this i assumed my CYA would raise to 80 therefore i my shock levels being 30. So i have been reaching this mark everytime when shocking to kill the algae. I also read it takes up for a week for it to show the difference in a test. So i tested today 9-10 days afterwards to see my CYA level is only at 35. How could this be possible? Does algae also eat the stabilizer? Since the CYA level is only 35, and i assumed the level would be getting up to 80 should my shock level been much much lower? And what should my Shock FC be then? Could the cloudy be from adding too much bleach?

    Since i know everyone asks for numbers here are mine a few hours ago pre shock.
    FC: 15
    CC: .5
    pH: 7.6
    TA: 130 (high for SWG i know, and bought the acid to aerate to try to lower to the 90 level)
    CH: 140
    CYA: 35


    Thank you for any help.
    22,000 Gallon Inground SWG Pool, Vinyl, Hayward Superpump 2HP,Hayward Sand Filter S244T

  2. Back To Top    #2

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,085

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Hi, Justin,

    Welcome to the forum. It certainly is puzzling about your CYA (no, algae doesn't eat it) and I can think of no explanation for now.

    What I would like to focus on is getting your pool water crystal clear and then you can make some Adjustments to CYA and perhaps TA as well.

    In short, there are occasions when you can be chemically done shocking the pool and your water hasn't cleared up. Do you have a pic? Are you running the filter 24/7 and brushing and backwashing/cleaning as oftern as possible? It may take another couple of days but you should see improvements in the cloudiness daily. For now, have some patience and see what happens.

    You didn't do anything wrong and I do not believe any harm has been done because of the CYA issue.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    I don't see anything in your numbers that indicate a clouding issue. A sand filter can take a while to clear a cloudy pool.

    Remember also that in order to be finished shocking you not only have to have .5ppm or less CC's you also con't lose more than 1ppm FC overnight.

    I'd give it a couple more days after passing the overnight loss test and then try adding some DE to your sand filter or maybe try some floc.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Butterfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    10,045

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Hi JustinK,

    In case you haven't seen it, here's a link to a visual for the CYA test:
    http://www.taylortechnologies.com/Chemi ... ntentID=44

    ....... I also read it takes up for a week for it to show the difference in a test. So i tested today 9-10 days afterwards to see my CYA level is only at 35. How could this be possible?
    If you added your CYA via the skimmer and then backwashed your filter, any CYA that had not dissolved would have been washed out.

    It would be helpful if you added your pool and equipment specs to your sig.
    Go to User Control Panel (top,left), select Profile, then Edit Sig.

    You have done a great job reading, learning and taking control of your pool.
    Welcome to the forum
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Long Island, New York, USA
    Posts
    24

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    I'm far from a pro, but a couple things come to mind...
    - How did you add the stabilizer? Recommendations here are generally to do so slowly by sticking it into socks or stockings over the water returns. When stabilizer is being added the water nearby can get slightly milky looking but this fades quickly. This probably isn't the cloudiness you're describing.
    - 12 lbs of stabilizer sounds like it would take your levels from 30 to 95 given the volume of your pool. Be careful targeting that high. It may be fine if you know why you're shooting for such a high goal, but don't do this just based on the pool store advice. I'm not that familiar with SWG but the pool calculator is telling me the goal would be 70-80 with an SWG pool. Anyone want to chime in here?
    - Have you been backwashing since adding the stabilizer? I've seen recommendations to avoid doing so for about a week while adding stabilizer or it'll just end up in your backwash (waste) water.

    My own take is that some of these things have to be done separately. For example, fighting algae means shocking the pool, cleaning and backwashing frequently. Increasing your CYA level means allowing the granular chemical to be slowly added into solution and avoiding backwashing. So these run contrary to one another. Probably not that big a deal if you can add a little chlorine each day to manually keep the pool shocked and fight the algae while you wait until you can afford a backwash-free week to add the CYA.

    Hopefully none of this fails to translate to the SWG environment. Best of luck!

    - Jason
    ~30K Gallon Vinyl IG, Triton II 24" 225# Sand Filter, Leslie HydraMax (Hayward Super II) pump
    Broken Hayward CL-200 Chlorohater, Dolphin Diagnostic cleaning robot
    TF-100 Test Kit

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Thank you all for the quick replies, everything has been helpful learning more. I am not very good with computers so i am not sure how to multi quote to address everyone. I guess i will try to do it all in this one post so please forgive me if i am not clear in each response.

    Duraleigh,
    Sorry i do not have a picture as i also do not own a digital camera. But i will see if i can borrow one from a friend and see what I can do about posting one, though i also do not know how to do that. I assumed i guess since the filter has been running 24/7 for 2 weeks now that it would have cleared up by now, but then again the algae hasnt been cleaned/cleared since yesterday so i guess it just needs more time. I have been brushing it everyday, or everytime i have shocked it when trying to kill the algae, and backwashed it not as much as I should as i wasnt sure if i should when i added the CYA. I have prob backwashed it everyday for the past 5 days or so, i guess i need to be doing it more then just once?

    Bama,
    Yes i plan on doing the overnight loss test to make sure i do not lose more then 1ppm FC along with the less then .5 CC again tonight/tomorrow. If after a few more days of it being cloudy, I will try adding DE though i will have to find how to do it. I never knew you could add DE to a sand filter.

    Butterfly,
    Thank you for the link, and I have seen it to make sure i was doing it correctly. I will try it again tomorrow. I added the CYA through socks in front of the return jet as I thought by doing this process I could backwash the filter in helps of killing the algae, as adding it through the skimmer i read you could not backwash. Tomorrow i will try to add the pool and specs when i find out for sure as I have just moved into this house and do not know everything.

    Jreiser,
    I added the stabilizer through multiple socks in front of return lines. It took a few days to clear and yes the color of that is not the same as the cloudiness I see now. Generally you can see clear maybe a foot down and thats about it. Originally with the pool calculator i put in 10.5 lbs of stabilizer. Then from reading so much everyday I must have thought I did the calculations wrong so i added the other 1.5 lbs to it. I believe you are right in that when i went to the pool store originally they told me to add 12 lbs, so I must of added the 1.5lbs extra because of that. I have been backwashing in the need of getting rid of the algae and I thought i had read this was ok as long as i did not put it through the skimmer, but through socks in front of returns. Is this not correct? To be sure though i did not backwash until a few days after i added.

    General,
    Could backwashing, even though using socks in front of returns explain why CYA hasn't gone up in over a week and seems non existant? Reading that high CYA is very bad, this is what I am unsure of doing. I dont see how the level could not have gone up if i added 12 lbs of CYA even if that was most likely a 1.5lb too much. I will test it again tomorrow. Would having the pool store test it also be a bad idea to make sure that I am not doing it wrong even if i believe i am aftering reading and knowing how to do it correctly? I just dont want to add more and have too high since that seems like it is bad.

    I know that i need to lower my TA for SWG and I plan on doing this. But it seems to be there should be an order of doing things which i have read for the water balance for SWGS. Do i wait a few days to see if the pool clears up from the filter/backwashing first? If not then do i try raising the CYA again, and then after that work on lowering the TA? Or can these all be done at the same time like i tried before adding the stabilizer while trying to get rid of the algae? I just dont know if i should put more stabilizer into the pool since like i said i already have put 12 lbs in 9-10 days ago.

    Again thank you for the replies and help, as it is much appreciated.
    22,000 Gallon Inground SWG Pool, Vinyl, Hayward Superpump 2HP,Hayward Sand Filter S244T

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Richard320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Dimas, CA (LA County)
    Posts
    18,768

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    If you pass the shock tests, and it stays cloudy, you might want to spend some time in the filter topics. You might have the phenomenom of "channeling" in your filter, or you might benefit from a small amount of diatomaceous earth or fiberclear added to your filter. I have a DE filter, so I only know what I've read here, but there has been plenty on those topics in the past two weeks.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Quick update as I was in a rush, and will update my sig when i get home later today. The overnight loss test showed FC dropped 2ppm from 17.5 to 15.5. Does this still mean then that algae is in there and i should maintain shock levels? If yes, my next question then is what should my shock level be based on the CYA being low even with adding the 12lbs to it last week to make the level over 80? For SWG cya at 80 it says to make shock level i believe 30, however if my CYA is only actually 35 do i go based on the shock level of a non SWG pool? Which if thats the case in the 30-40 range, i am already still in shock level so I would do nothing then?

    Thanks Richard, i will look into those topics next.
    22,000 Gallon Inground SWG Pool, Vinyl, Hayward Superpump 2HP,Hayward Sand Filter S244T

  9. Back To Top    #9
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Yes, an overnight FC loss means continue shocking.

    If you added CYA more than a week ago, you should test your CYA level and find out what it really is. If you added CYA less than a week ago but more than 24 hours ago, you need to estimate what your CYA level is likely to be based on how much you added and use that. If you added CYA less than 24 hours ago, treat the pool as if you haven't added CYA yet.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Jason,

    Thanks, yea that was the problem i was speaking about earlier in the post. I added 12lbs of CYA 9-10 days ago, so i tested it yesterday and found it only went up to 35 for some reason and could not figure out why. Was added through the sock method so i thought it was fine to backwash. Are you still not supposed to backwash even if you add it this way?

    But based on the low 35 reading then my levels have stayed in shock levels as i was adding it based on the estimation of the 12lbs i added. So it seems like i have been adding way too much bleach then right? Could this be causing a problem?

    I will continue keeping it at the shock level of the 35 CYA reading i guess for now at the 16 Shock FC level.
    22,000 Gallon Inground SWG Pool, Vinyl, Hayward Superpump 2HP,Hayward Sand Filter S244T

  11. Back To Top    #11
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    If you put CYA in a sock in the skimmer, you should not backwash for several days. If you put CYA in a sock hanging in-front of a return jet then it is normally alright to backwash.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Jason,

    Sorry i was not clear but yes I put it in front of a sock hanging in front of a return jet since i thought i read it was fine to backwash by doing it this way. So adding 12lbs of HTH stabilizer 9-10 days ago and the level only went up from 30-40 (retested it right now). Since it has been 10 days since i added it, i dont understand why there is such a low reading? I have added some water, but not alot due to the backwashing. Would you suggest adding more again once the overnight loss test is completed? Because i have read having high levels on CYA is bad but i just dont understand why my levels did not go up.
    22,000 Gallon Inground SWG Pool, Vinyl, Hayward Superpump 2HP,Hayward Sand Filter S244T

  13. Back To Top    #13
    NCFlyersFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NE North Carolina
    Posts
    116

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    My two cents.... I would turn the SWG off, finish shocking using bleach and get your water clear. After that, worry about salt levels and CYA and begin using the SWG.

    Have you taken a sample to your LPS to test for CYA? I would be curious to see what they get for a reading and compare it to yours.... You may be a lot higher than your test indicates, which would require higher levels of FC to shock your pool......
    13,000 gal AGP, Hayward X-Stream 100 sq ft cartridge, 1 HP Hayward Power-Flo Matrix Pump, all on two 6-hour on cycles per day. Baquacil to BBB convert.
    "It is necessary for us to learn from others' mistakes. You will not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman G. Rickover

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    NCFlyersFan,

    Thanks. Yes i turned off the SWG and have been just using bleach to keep up the shock and FC levels. Every level seems fine, though i do know i need lower my TA and raise my CYA being a SWG pool.

    I took it originally before i had gotten my test kit I guess 2 weeks ago to see what level they had. They had it at 30 and thats what I went based off before i added my 12lbs of stabilizer. I had planned on going today to see what they tested for after i did the same test but didnt get a chance to and will tomorrow when i can just to see what they come up with.

    Am going to do the overnight test again after shocking it again. I do though see some clearing up as now i can barely see the bottom of the shallow end of the pool, so i guess its just time after the algae is killed. Still just baffled by the small increase in CYA after adding the 12lbs 10 days ago, but will first just work on getting the alage completely gone and then i guess move to trying to figure that out. Maybe i am doing the test wrong, even though im fairly positive with how anal/perfectionist that I am, that i am doing it right. Guess maybe the pool stores reading on it tomorrow to will let me know this.

    Another question I seem to have thought of. I remember when i first moved into this house last year, it was completely a swamp. I had a pool person come out and basically drained it refilled it etc. On the orientation booklet that the previous owners left us, it lists the pool as being 19,500 gallons though the pool person said there was no way that is right and estimated i think 22,000 or more. After doing the pool calculation based on 20x40 avg depth 4.5 it comes up with 26,900 gallons based on a rectangular pool. The pool though is a Jewell Lazy L shape and has sloping sides in the deep end. I tried looking through google to find an exact estimate based on the shape but no luck. I know i have listed 22k gallons and I forgot how I came up with this . Which calculation should be correct?
    22,000 Gallon Inground SWG Pool, Vinyl, Hayward Superpump 2HP,Hayward Sand Filter S244T

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    221

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    If your original 30 ppm CYA reading was from the pool store, that could be part of your problem. It's possible your CYA was really zero at that point. I would personally trust your current CYA reading using the K-2006 over whatever reading you get from the pool store. As others have said, the way I would deal with the CYA right now would be to ignore it and work on other things. I'd give it at least one more week before doing anything with CYA just to ensure you don't overshoot it because of some freak delay in it showing up.
    32x16 ft Grecian rectangular vinyl pool 8ft on deep end - 19000 gal. 18" Hayward S-240 sand filter. 250K BTU Pentair MasterTemp heater. Hayward 3/4 HP Super Pump.

  16. Back To Top    #16
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    22,000 sounds like a reasonable guess to me. You can calculate the exact size if you take a bunch of measurements and do some math, but it probably isn't worth it. I suspect that 22,000 is within 10% of the correct size. Besides for the CYA to only have gone up to 35, you would have to have a 40,000 gallon pool and had CYA start at 0.

    Something else went wrong with the CYA situation, either the testing is wrong or what you added wasn't really CYA, or something.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Jason,

    Thanks. Ive tested it multiple times and each time it has come within the 35-40 range. The CYA i added was the 12lbs of HTH stabilizer from Walmart which is the right stuff correct? I will have the pool store test it tomorrow to see with what they come up with.
    22,000 Gallon Inground SWG Pool, Vinyl, Hayward Superpump 2HP,Hayward Sand Filter S244T

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    HTH stabilizer is the right stuff.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Post Alage confusion, questions.

    Update:

    The overnight loss test still showed some loss at a 1.5ppm change so i will continue shocking it. Also went to LPS and asked them to test the CYA which they came up with 30. Still cant understand why 12lbs of HTH stabilizer through a sock in front of a return hasnt changed it. Seeing how its been two weeks now should i just go ahead and add more the same way? Or do it through the skimmer and not backwash once the alage is completely gone since the other method seemed not to work?
    22,000 Gallon Inground SWG Pool, Vinyl, Hayward Superpump 2HP,Hayward Sand Filter S244T

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •