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Thread: Electrical box?

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    Malibu07's Avatar
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    Electrical box?

    As I have posted before, we have ordered an inground 14 x 28 pool kit. I'm wondering will I need to have a separate electrical box for the pump?
    14,700 gal. 14 x 28 rectangle with 2R IG by Hydra Pools, 1 hp Hayward Maxflow ll, Hayward 24" Sand Filter, Aquarite Electronic SWG, one Aqua Genie Complete Skimmer, two main drains, four returns, 2 spa jets in steps, 30ml Tidewater liner. Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Electircal box?

    More info would help. What size/kind of pump? Will you have a booster pump for a cleaner, SWG, heat pump?
    How far will your equipment pad be from your main breaker box? Do you have 200 amp service to your house? More info on your pool specs will help.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Malibu07's Avatar
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    Re: Electircal box?

    14 x 28 pool with 3-4' shallow end to a 6' deep end.
    HY Pump System 1 hp Hayward
    HY Filter System Hayward Sand Filter
    Salt Generator

    We may put the pumping station about 100 yards from the main breaker. As far as amperage, I'm not sure, would it be on the box somewhere?
    14,700 gal. 14 x 28 rectangle with 2R IG by Hydra Pools, 1 hp Hayward Maxflow ll, Hayward 24" Sand Filter, Aquarite Electronic SWG, one Aqua Genie Complete Skimmer, two main drains, four returns, 2 spa jets in steps, 30ml Tidewater liner. Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Malibu07's Avatar
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    Re: Electircal box?

    I looked on the breaker box and the main breaker says 150.
    Can we run the wire from the pump to a 20 amp box that is on the side of our house? We use that box for Christmas lights.
    14,700 gal. 14 x 28 rectangle with 2R IG by Hydra Pools, 1 hp Hayward Maxflow ll, Hayward 24" Sand Filter, Aquarite Electronic SWG, one Aqua Genie Complete Skimmer, two main drains, four returns, 2 spa jets in steps, 30ml Tidewater liner. Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Electircal box?

    Are you sure you mean 100 yards and not 100 feet?
    No, the 20 amp plug you have will not be enough power. Your pump will be, most likely, 240 volts. Your plug is only 120V. You are going to need a subpanel out by the pool, or at the least, a 240 circuit. You probably need to call an electrician. I dont think this is a DYI job for you, honestly. Electical work around a pool really requires a professional.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Malibu07's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical box?

    Blonde me, I meant 100 feet.
    Yeah we definitely had planned on getting an electrician to do the work. I guess the best thing to do is wait until the kit gets here so we will know exactly how many volts the pump is.
    Thanks for your help.
    14,700 gal. 14 x 28 rectangle with 2R IG by Hydra Pools, 1 hp Hayward Maxflow ll, Hayward 24" Sand Filter, Aquarite Electronic SWG, one Aqua Genie Complete Skimmer, two main drains, four returns, 2 spa jets in steps, 30ml Tidewater liner. Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Don't know if this will help you, but here's what I did. A local electrician quoted me about $800 to install a sub-panel about 50' from my main panel. Instead, I paid him to tell me what to buy and I installed it myself. He came back and inspected, all for about $100. I did all the grunt work, running PVC conduit, mounting the panel, etc. Good luck!
    Larry
    16x28 vinyl inground kidney, 1HP pump, sand filter, Compupool SWG, 11K gallons

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Quote Originally Posted by lbrownin
    Don't know if this will help you, but here's what I did. A local electrician quoted me about $800 to install a sub-panel about 50' from my main panel. Instead, I paid him to tell me what to buy and I installed it myself. He came back and inspected, all for about $100. I did all the grunt work, running PVC conduit, mounting the panel, etc. Good luck!
    Was $100 including the materials you bought? My nephew can do it, he doesn't have a license, but I could go the route you did. Get him to install it and then get an electrician to inspect it.
    14,700 gal. 14 x 28 rectangle with 2R IG by Hydra Pools, 1 hp Hayward Maxflow ll, Hayward 24" Sand Filter, Aquarite Electronic SWG, one Aqua Genie Complete Skimmer, two main drains, four returns, 2 spa jets in steps, 30ml Tidewater liner. Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Electrical box?

    That may or may not be a good idea, depends on your building inspector, and the ability to find an electrician to do it that way. Realize too that you will most likely need a building permit for the pool install. Have you gotten a permit yet? Who is shooting the grades and doing the excavation?
    Edit to say:

    $800 for a subpanel install is cheap. Materials alone will run ~$500 or so. I believe the $100 was just to pay hte electrician to look at the work and make sure it was to code. I will say that I do not know any electricians who would do that. It's their license number that goes on the permit.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Pshaw! Hit the library and read up on electrical wiring. After educating myself I successfully tackled relocating my main panel and upgrading my service from 200A to 320. I had to go through a tough interview down at the permit office, but I saved myself several thousand dollars doing it! Do not attempt it without educating yourself first, and remember that saving money is not more important than safety! Do it right and do it safe!
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lershac
    Pshaw! Hit the library and read up on electrical wiring. After educating myself I successfully tackled relocating my main panel and upgrading my service from 200A to 320. I had to go through a tough interview down at the permit office, but I saved myself several thousand dollars doing it! Do not attempt it without educating yourself first, and remember that saving money is not more important than safety! Do it right and do it safe!
    Glad you saved the money. However, all that depends on the jurisdiction. A lot of states and even towns will not allow a homeowner to pull a permit and do their own electrical work, no matter how much "education" they have obtained.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Electrical box?

    $800 seems insane to me, I recently had an electrician install a small 6 circuit 70 amp outdoor panel about 30 feet from the main panel as small part of a much larger job that only ran about $1,800. I supplied the panel (NEMA 3R outdoor panel about $40), the 2 pole 20 amp GFCI breaker was probably the most expensive part at around $90. Wiring was around $80 from the local electrical supply shop, about half the price of getting it a Lowes. If you do the trenching and run the conduit, this is likely a 1-2 hour job for the electrician.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Electrical box?

    if you're installing a sub panel near the pool, remember to include enough capacity for lights, outlets, etc as well as the pump. Also you really need to find out what the local codes are. It may need GFCI protection, and the ground bonding will also need to be up to code.
    16'x34' IG Vinyl. 1.5HP Hayward 2spd. Hayward S244T sand. Nitro wall climber.

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    $800 seems insane to me,
    You guys have to remember what part of the country you're in. Things are cheaper down your way. Not to mention the union is non-existant.

    i'll say again, installing a new subpanel and electrical service for a new pool build where permits and inspections are needed are best left to a pro unless you really, really know what your doing and your state/town allows homeowners to pull a permit.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Glad you saved the money. However, all that depends on the jurisdiction. A lot of states and even towns will not allow a homeowner to pull a permit and do their own electrical work, no matter how much "education" they have obtained.
    You sound like a union electrician. Its not black magic, its manual labor and as long as you know what is required for the job, know when to admit you are out of your depth and get help, and do it safely and legally, its fine to tackle it yourself.

    I also find it offensive that you quoted education. The information necessary to do most jobs is available to learn so if you enjoy doing it yourself I fully support anyone who does it safely and legally.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lershac
    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Glad you saved the money. However, all that depends on the jurisdiction. A lot of states and even towns will not allow a homeowner to pull a permit and do their own electrical work, no matter how much "education" they have obtained.
    You sound like a union electrician. Its not black magic, its manual labor and as long as you know what is required for the job, know when to admit you are out of your depth and get help, and do it safely and legally, its fine to tackle it yourself.

    I also find it offensive that you quoted education. The information necessary to do most jobs is available to learn so if you enjoy doing it yourself I fully support anyone who does it safely and legally.
    No offense meant on the quotes. Just meant to delineate between formal training and self taught. Sometimes it's hard to get across meaning on these boards. And no, i'm not a union electrician. I've wired whole houses as an amature, with no license. But, will say that electical work is not just manual labor. A lot of time and education goes into it. To become a licensed, journyman electrician takes many hours and years of work, both classroom and on the job training. The NEC is not simple, either. My point is that roping a house with romex is one thing. Getting a subpanel put in correctly, near a pool no less, bonding the pool and equipment properly, etc, pulling a permit, and getting it inspected, and passing it, is not a job for a run of the mill DYI'er. Again, most jurisdictions will not alllow a homeowner to pull a permit and do their own work. If they will in yours, great.
    FWIW, several folks on here, myself included, have walked DYI'ers though adding outlets and even a new subpanel. But, those were on exisiting pools where a permit, while probably required, was/is something that could be circumvented, maybe
    On a new build, a permit is absolutely required for an inground pool install, including the electrical. Also, I can usually tell from the questions being asked if a DYI'er is up to the task of doing a particualr job. If I dont think so, (my subjective opinion, granted) I'll advise professional help.
    One last though,
    Electrical work is not a hobby, it's a profession
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Thanks guys for all your input.
    I talked to a neighbor today about getting her dad (who is a licensed electrician) to help us with this project. She also told me that her husband prior to the job he has now, used to be an electrician. He may help out too.

    Now I've just got to get a decent price for concrete and I think I will be set.
    14,700 gal. 14 x 28 rectangle with 2R IG by Hydra Pools, 1 hp Hayward Maxflow ll, Hayward 24" Sand Filter, Aquarite Electronic SWG, one Aqua Genie Complete Skimmer, two main drains, four returns, 2 spa jets in steps, 30ml Tidewater liner. Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Electrical box?

    [rant]
    I'm not a union electrician either - in fact, I'm not even a currently licensed electrician, but I have been doing electrical work since before I was 12 years old at the hand of a master, along with significant schooling for EE, and working as an industrial electrician for over 20 years. I've worked extensively with everything from microvolts to 4160V 3-phase, from DC to microwaves. I've installed buss ducts and 6" conduit. All told, my years of experience make me a non-licensed homeowner, albeit one with over 30 years of experience and training, and while I will perform my own work at home, I am not legally qualified to work anywhere else unless I'm employed by a licensed contractor.

    That said, there is a lot that can go wrong with electrical work, and much of it isn't learned without many years of experience. I cannot begin to tell you how many bad connections, open neutrals, undersized wires, exposed, uninsulated terminals and other dangerous situations I have personally encountered and had to repair. Many of them only turned into problems after years of lurking and/or smoldering, but were caused directly by bad installation. I've known a lot of people that were lucky to be alive because of amateur work.

    So don't take this the wrong way, as I am all in favor of a knowledgeable homeowner doing good DIY work, but there is a difference in my mind between going to the library and educating oneself and an electrical education, but like I say, that's in my mind. Replacing a switch or adding an outlet is a far cry from upgrading a service panel. Though 230 VAC isn't an arc-flash danger, it can be just as lethal. And most times, people who don't know what they need to know to do a job properly don't know that they don't know, and thus cannot anticipate the full consequences of their actions. Wow - that sentence should probably be read twice.

    Additionally, local code requirements vary, and wire size, conduit size, termination requirements, burial depth, panel mounting requirements, protection methods, bonding and grounding methods will all be determined by NEC and/or the local AHJ. You may be fine, until some kid gets hurt or killed on your equipment, and at that point it will no longer matter whether you got it right, you'll be at fault for having an illegal or unapproved installation. Sort of like driving without a license - you may be a great driver, but if you're in an accident, even if not technically your fault, you're at fault.

    So if you're comfortable with it, go for it. But be careful telling others who may not have the knowledge, skill, or experience to just go ahead and do it themselves.

    [/rant]
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    Re: Electrical box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohm_Boy
    [rant]
    I'm not a union electrician either - snip-

    So if you're comfortable with it, go for it. But be careful telling others who may not have the knowledge, skill, or experience to just go ahead and do it themselves.

    [/rant]
    Who did that? I said educate yourself first. As long as your installation is reviewed and passes inspection, your liability is covered by your homeowners insurance. Doing it right and doing it safe (and legally) means pulling that permit and submitting your work to industry standards-based municipal inspection.

    Anyone taking on any project needs to keep top of mind that what you do not know can kill you and others. This is the motivation for submitting plans for review and approval to your municipal inspection authorities BEFORE beginning any work! In rural areas where permitting may not be required I endorse having a qualified electrician professionally review your plans.

    Safety for yourself and those that will follow should be your guiding thought in all your work.

    Far from disagreeing with your rant I heartily endorse it, people should know their own limits, and respect the code and law concerning their work, be it professional, or amateur. It is those that cut corners and endanger others that foster the idea that work performed by amateurs cannot be of the same level of quality as those performed by lifetime professionals, and that is simply not true.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: Electrical box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lershac

    Doing it right and doing it safe (and legally) means pulling that permit and submitting your work to industry standards-based municipal inspection.

    .
    Thats fine if your jurisdiction allows a homeowner to pull a permit, many wont. So..all of the education is a moot point if that the case.
    I think what got myself and ohm-boy a little ruffled was the comment on the union electrician and the manual labor. But..i'm over and out on this thread.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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