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Thread: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

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    Athlon646464's Avatar
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    First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Hello! I think I'm going to be happy I found you all!!

    I've been following the advice of my pool store (they also put in the pool 12 years ago) since day one.

    Last year I could never get the water sparkling clear as in years past. If perfect is a 10, I could not get past 8 or 9 all year.

    When I uncovered the pool 2 weeks ago, I uncovered a swamp! I've spent many trips to the pool store and have spent hundreds on chemicals to get it to where I can barely see the bottom in the deep end, and it still looks cloudy in the shallow end. I've been vacuuming (mostly blindly) out the waste port, and have expelled probably 3 or 4 feet of water. I know I will have to follow the regiment found here. I'm just not sure what to do first, as my numbers are so out of whack.

    I have not begun to use the auto feeder (cartridges) yet this year - just lots of 'shock' and other stuff. In the past for chlorine I've been using only what they tell me to, the cartridges in the feeder attached to the filter as well as 'shock'.

    That leads to my first question - why would my CYA be so high? I have not added stabilizer in years, and I've been expelling water like crazy!

    In desperation I did a Google search and found this site. If I wasn't happy before, well, I can't type here what I really want to say after learning about BBB.

    I've read a lot here, and want to switch to the BBB method. I went out and bought a k-2006 FAS-DPD test kit yesterday.

    Here are my numbers and a picture of the pool. Please help!

    PH - 8
    TA - 190
    FC - 5
    TC - ? (no test for that in the kit?)
    CH - 80
    CC - 0.4
    CYA - 70

    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Read the pool school. You need to run your filter 24 hours and shock with bleach. You need to find how many gallons your pool is. If its say 25000 gallons you will need about 11 gallons of bleach to shock with a CYA of 70. And you need to keep it there. Like I said if you spend the time and read pool school you should get good insight. The pool looks cloudy and I would just think shock and running the filter should clear it up. Your other numbers need miner tweaking.
    12X18 AG, 6200 gal
    Hayward S166T sand filter, Switched back to 100 sq ft cart.
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    Been using BBB since pool was new in 2004. Never had any problems.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Welcome to TFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athlon646464
    That leads to my first question - why would my CYA be so high? I have not added stabilizer in years, and I've been expelling water like crazy!
    Actually you have been adding stabilizer. Every time you add shock (if it's Dichlor) or a tablet to the feeder you're adding stabilizer. So you've been adding it all along.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athlon646464
    Here are my numbers and a picture of the pool. Please help!
    PH - 8
    TA - 190
    FC - 5
    TC - ? (no test for that in the kit?)
    CH - 80
    CC - 0.4
    CYA - 70
    First thing you need to do is get the pH down to about 7.2 using muratic acid. You can figure out how much to add by using the Pool Calc (link in my sig). If you have questions on it's use just post back here and we help you.

    Your CYA level is pretty high and though it's managable I'd recommend you drain about 1/4th to 1/3rd of your water to get it down. If that's not feasable, then you need to immediately stop using anything with CYA in it. Keep in mind that it's going to be a real problem trying to shock which is what you need to do.

    Your TA is a little high but it'll come down as you bring your pH down.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    What's in the 'cartridges in the feeder'? that's probably trichlor which is stabilized chlorine. Powder shock can also contain stabilizer.

    FC + CC = TC

    You need to lower your Ph down to 7.4 first, then resume shocking - you'll find your shock level on the CYA Chart. Use the pool calculator to determine dosages. Use only liquid chlorine.

    Follow the steps in "How to shock your pool" in Pool School.

    Post back if you need further clarification
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    Athlon646464's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Thanks for the quick replies!

    After reading what you have said, and what is written elsewhere here - I'm going for a good start/baseline. I'm going to drain 1/3 of my water. I will then refill, test and post my new numbers. It will save on at least the bleach cost.

    BTW, the product I've been sticking in the feeder is called 'New Water Cycler Pac'.

    Ingredients:

    99% trichloro-s-Triazinetrione
    1% Other Ingrediants

    I have 3 cartridges @ a total of $80. That's a lot of bleach!
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Athlon, you have a PM. Look in upper left corner at "new messages"
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Athlon646464's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Athlon, you have a PM. Look in upper left corner at "new messages"
    Got it!
    We're not far from each other!
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Your water replacement cost by draining could easily cost you more than maybe the extra 4 or 5 gallons of bleach you might need to shock it at this level. Just something to think about.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Athlon646464
    Ingredients:

    99% trichloro-s-Triazinetrione
    1% Other Ingrediants

    I have 3 cartridges @ a total of $80. That's a lot of bleach!
    That's alot of stabilized chlorine for a very, very unneccessarily high price.

    It explains the stabilizer levels.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Update:

    I drained about 40% of the water in my pool, and refilled it overnight. I turned the filter back on about 30 minutes ago.

    I plan to let it circulate for about 3 hours and then do another round of tests and post the numbers here.

    Obviously the water looks much better already, although I could see spots of algae on the walls in three places when the water was low. I'm really curious about what the numbers will look like so I will be able to see if this 'fresh start' approach will help me and the family get into the water soon!

    BTW - I purchased the pool calculator for my iPod touch - Great Program!!
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Athlon646464's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Here are my new numbers after lowering the water and re-filling:

    PH - 7.9
    TA - 170
    FC - 2
    TC - 2.2
    CH - 80
    CC - 0.2
    CYA - 50

    It looks like I need to put in some muriatic acid first to get my PH to 7.4. How long after adding should I retest for PH to make sure I'm ready to start getting rid of any algae left? Because it's late in the day today, I think I'll start the regimen to rid the pool of algae 1st thing in the morning anyway.

    Any suggestions?
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Here's what I would do.
    Add Muriatic acid to get the pH down to about 7.2.
    I wouldn't wait till tomorrow to start shocking I would add enough chlorine this evening to get to shock.
    I'd wait about an hour and test the pH and FC again.

    Even if you don't add anymore chlorine tonight I'd still start it now.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Here's what I would do.
    Add Muriatic acid to get the pH down to about 7.2.
    I wouldn't wait till tomorrow to start shocking I would add enough chlorine this evening to get to shock.
    I'd wait about an hour and test the pH and FC again.

    Even if you don't add anymore chlorine tonight I'd still start it now.
    Will do. Thank you very much!

    I'm off to get the acid and bleach.

    I'll keep you posted.
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Athlon646464's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Today's numbers:

    PH - 7.4
    TA - 130
    FC - 22
    TC - 22
    CH - 70
    CC - 0
    CYA - 42 (50 yesterday)

    Last night (around 5pm) I added the amount of bleach recommended by the calculator for the amount of CYA I measured yesterday (50). At around 7:30pm I started to measure FC, and stopped the test when I got to a number of drops that indicated it was above 25. I had a busy day yesterday and was tired so I called it a night. Nevertheless I was surprised that I overshot on the bleach. I suppose if I'm going to do that now is the time.

    I must say that the water looks much better this morning. It's not green anymore, just a little cloudy. It's close to where I could get it all of last year.

    My guess is that the high FC points to a mistake yesterday when measuring CYA? That would make sense given that my FA is so high (should be 15 for my pool at shock level).

    So, today I have the whole day to get this right. My plan is to scrub the vinyl today and vacuum out to the waste port when the 'dust' settles. I will keep measuring FC and keep it to 15 when it falls, and do so until it holds overnight.

    Am I on the right track here?
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    You also may have overestimated the volume of your pool. What are the dimensions and depth? Also when calculating the amount of chlorine, make sure you have the correct concentration and jug size selected. A 96 ounce bottle of 6% bleach is not the same as a gallon of 10% pool store chlorine.

    When you check the CYA, the dot should be completely gone. Perform the test outside in full sunlight with the sun at your back. Hold the viewing tube at waist level while you drop in the solution. You can pour the test solution back into the mixing bottle and re-read the test again a couple of times to see if you are getting the same results. The difference between 42 and 50 is not enough to change the recommended FC levels.
    TFP Moderator
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    Athlon646464's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3
    You also may have overestimated the volume of your pool. What are the dimensions and depth? Also when calculating the amount of chlorine, make sure you have the correct concentration and jug size selected. A 96 ounce bottle of 6% bleach is not the same as a gallon of 10% pool store chlorine.

    When you check the CYA, the dot should be completely gone. Perform the test outside in full sunlight with the sun at your back. Hold the viewing tube at waist level while you drop in the solution. You can pour the test solution back into the mixing bottle and re-read the test again a couple of times to see if you are getting the same results. The difference between 42 and 50 is not enough to change the recommended FC levels.
    When I lowered my PH yesterday with the recommended amount of muriatic acid, it came out spot on.

    I'll heed your advice on reading CYA from now on. I only have enough stuff left for one more test. (The best place to get more?)

    I'm using 6% bleach from 182oz containers from Wal-Mart. That's what I entered into the iPhone app. I also entered the measurements of my pool into the app.

    32' x 16'.

    I used my pole to measure water depth at both the shallow end & deep end. 3' and 8'. I used 5.5' as the depth measurement in the calculator.

    Thank you!
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    You can order more CYA reagent from tfptestkits.com or sometimes you can find it at Leslie's pool supply. I would call first and ask if they have the Taylor R-0013 reagent in stock.
    TFP Moderator
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    Athlon646464's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Here's the latest, after scrubbing and brushing all day!

    Thank you all for your help in this thread and all over this site!!! My pool looks better then it has in years!!!!

    Current numbers:

    PH - 7.4
    TA - 140
    FC - 15
    TC - 15.4
    CH - 70
    CC - 0.4
    CYA - 42

    My plan is to keep an eye on my FC, and not to let it drop below 6 or 7. It's been dropping through the day, although very little in the last few hours.

    Again - thank you for all of your help.

    Am I missing anything?
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Please post an "after" picture so we can see the transformation!
    Free-form concrete walls with vinyl liner, 18,000 gallon capacity, Jandy 1.5HP e-Pump, Jandy DEV48 DE filter (using cellulose media), Jandy AE2500 heat pump, Jandy Aqualink Power Center with 14-blade cell kit and Jandy PDA-P8 wireless control system.

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    Athlon646464's Avatar
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    Re: First Post - Green Cloudy Water

    Quote Originally Posted by poolneophyte
    Please post an "after" picture so we can see the transformation!
    Will do! There are some pretty severe storms moving through our area at the moment (likely blowing a bunch of leaves and pine needles into my pool ). I did go swimming though before they hit. The water felt great!

    I may get a chance to post some pics when I get home tomorrow.
    21,100 gallons - Hayward S-180 Sand filter - IG Vinyl - 3/4 HP Hayward Super Pump - Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve that says rated for 75 gpm on it.

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