Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Hello all. I have a 30000 gallon in ground pool with an aUTO pILOT SALT GENERATOR SC 48. I just opened the pool, the water looked pretty clear excelt for some dirt that got in from the cover.I ran the filter 48 hours straight, the pool is crystal clear. I brought in a test sample to the pool store . The below are the results oh the first 24 hours i boosted the pool so the booster was on the first 24 hours of the 48.

    RECOMMENDED RANGE
    FREE CHLOR 4.2PPM 1.0 - 3.0PPM
    TOTAL CHLOR 4.3PPM 1.0 - 3.0 PPM
    COMBINED CHLOR 0.1PPM 0.0 - 0.5PPM
    PH 7.7 7.2 - 7.8
    HARDNESS 170 PPM 200 -500PPM
    ALKALINITY 90 PPM 100 - 140 PPM
    CYANURIC ACID 5 PPM 30 - 150 PPM
    SALT 2010 2500 - 3500 PPM

    I was told this is what I should add
    200 pounds of salt(diretly into deep end of pool), then right after 15 pounds of proteam alkalinity up(broadcst around perimeter of pool). then wait two hours then add 20 pounds of pro team calcium up(diluted through the skimmer). then 2 hours later 50 pounds ocean breeze salt support.
    Here are my questions. Well first off I did the salt, alk and calcium. My question for the salt support is that i read on the forums that it is the same thing as pro team uv shield. is this true. The salt support was $90 for a 25 lb tub and I needed two. Last season I used uv shield. The salesman at the store said I should only be using salt support because it is made specifically for salt water generators. I read also on the forums that haviland which makes both brands just marketed that ocean breeze name to make it look like its made strictly for SWG's. DO I use this salt support stuff or can I use something else? Like the uv shield. Also I was told by a relative that I can get calcium chloride flakes from home depot for a lot cheaper and it is the same as pro teams calcium up and also that I can buy 50 pound bag of baking soda because that is the same as alkalinity up. Is this true?? LAstly, i read on the forums that calcium is really not needed in a vinyl lined pool. Is this true? the only reason they said to use the calcium or to worry about it is because of the salt geberators warranty. if calcium is off will it dameage the cell by scaling it? thanks for all your help.?
    18x36 IGP WITH ROMAN ENDS SO TECHNICALLY 18 X 44
    (ACCORDING TO POOL STORE SPECS)
    30000 GALLONS ??
    1 3/4 HP PUMP
    MOD MEDIA CARTRIDGE FILTER
    POLARIS CLEANER
    DIGITAL AUTP PILOT SWG

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    There is no need for calcium in a vinyl liner pool, unless you have fairly new equipment and then it may be required to maintain your warranty coverage (though that varies). Having CH too high can cause problems for the SWG.

    Havland/Ocean Breeze Salt Support contains borates (mostly boric acid). This is not the same thing as cyanuric acid/uv shield at all. Borates can be nice, but they are optional. Cyanuric acid/UV shield is required. Borates have nothing specific to do with the SWG, you can use them or not, it doesn't make any difference to the SWG.

    Alkalinity increaser is baking soda, exact same chemical.

    Calcium increaser is available in some areas at places like Home Depot, often sold as an ice melter. But it tends to be difficult to find.

    It is unfortunate that you already raised the TA level. We recommend TA be between 60 and 80 with a SWG, so yours was already too high before you added more.

    You need to get your CYA/cyanuric acid/uv shield/stabilizer/conditioner (many names for the same thing) level up. We recommend that CYA be between 70 and 80 with a SWG. With CYA at 5 you will not be able to maintain a chlorine level during the day, which is likely to cause problems.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Thanks for the response. I did call the pool store again just to ask a few questions. Here is there answers. I asked why I needed the salt support and they said it puts a coating on the swg blades and will extend the llfe. I asked if that is the only difference between Uv shield and the salt support and he said yes. They both contain cya. He told me the white part of the blue/white mixture is cya. I think next year I will buy the uv shield at 25 bucks for 8 pounds instead of the 50 pounds for 180.00. He also siad that the alkilinity should be close to 200. And he said that the liner has calcium in it so calcium up is definately needed. ANd it has to be raised. Is this all a ploy to sell much items. I had the pool installed in 2007 and in 2008 I had to replace the swg cell. When they closed the pool last year, the cell had some scaling on it but they hosed it off with a high pressure hose and the scaling went away. I want to keep the pool in excellent running condition and at the most economical. Both wife and I lost our jobs last year and still have not been emplyed. SO money is real real tight. Thanks for all your advice. I have to wait a week to have the pool water retested after adding all the above chemicals in the previous post above. I will repost the results and wait to hear from you all. Hope the levels come back all fine. Thanks for your help.
    18x36 IGP WITH ROMAN ENDS SO TECHNICALLY 18 X 44
    (ACCORDING TO POOL STORE SPECS)
    30000 GALLONS ??
    1 3/4 HP PUMP
    MOD MEDIA CARTRIDGE FILTER
    POLARIS CLEANER
    DIGITAL AUTP PILOT SWG

  4. Back To Top    #4
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,965

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    He doesn't know what he's talking about with regard to TA or the Calcium.
    Often their advice is simply a way for them to sell more chemicals.

    Read this article:
    Water Balance for SWCGs
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  5. Back To Top    #5
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Very sales oriented, with all the facts wrong. Alkalinity around 200 with a SWG will cause significant problems. Nothing "puts a coating on the swg blades", anything that did would prevent the SWG from working. Adding borates, which is most of the salt support is, can reduce the amount of scaling on the SWG, but that is a relatively small indirect effect. In any case, it is much better to get your levels balanced correctly to avoid scaling completely.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Okay all so, now back from the pool store after waiting a week for the chemicals to circulate throughout the pool. here are the below readings.

    FC 1.4 PPM
    TC 1.6 PPM
    CC 0.2 PPM
    PH 8.1
    HARDNESS 230 PPM
    ALKALINITY 140 PPM
    CYANURIC ACID 10 PPM
    COPPER .01 PPM
    IRON 0.0 PPM

    There suggestions is to add 1/2 gallon muriatic acid let filter run for four hours then add 8 pounds pro team uv shield which he said would bring the cya up to 30 ppm. Is this all correct? And when can I swim in the pool with the muriatic acid.. He said after four hours. Also he said to run the filter for 24 hours and also that it will take 7 to 10 days for the cya to totally dissovle. Please let me know thanks.
    18x36 IGP WITH ROMAN ENDS SO TECHNICALLY 18 X 44
    (ACCORDING TO POOL STORE SPECS)
    30000 GALLONS ??
    1 3/4 HP PUMP
    MOD MEDIA CARTRIDGE FILTER
    POLARIS CLEANER
    DIGITAL AUTP PILOT SWG

  7. Back To Top    #7
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Yes, those are all good suggestions. You need to keep your PH at 7.8 or lower, and raise CYA into the 30-50 range, which is what they are telling you to do.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Okay so here are the latest results from a different pool store. Yesterday I added about 1/4 of a gallon of muriatic acid and 4 hours later 8 pounds of pro team uv shield. ARE the below numbers good??? ( the numbers are below the next paragraph)

    SO this pool store reccomended the following based on the below numbers.. Add 4.5 pounds of lo n slo to lower ph and .5 pounds of stabilizer. She did say that i dont really have to add the stabiler because the cya is pretty close to being ideal. and to add 5 bags of shock or just put the SWG in boost mode.
    I put the SWG in boost mode. I think the ph at 7.8 is pretty good after it was 8.1 yesterday before the muriatic acid. I told her about the muriatic acid and she said that they use that to clean filters and that should never be put directly into the pool. As a matter of fact she stated they dont even carry that in the store because it is so dangerous. Did I do the right thing in putting the muriatic acid in the pool yesterday?? ALSO can the kids go in the pool today even though i put the acid in yesterday?? Thanks for all the great help here in the forums.!! Let me know about the below numbers. My pool info is in my signature.

    cya 58
    tot chlor 1.3
    free chlor 0.7
    ph 7.8
    total alk 130
    adj toital alk 113
    total hardness 267
    salt 3100
    18x36 IGP WITH ROMAN ENDS SO TECHNICALLY 18 X 44
    (ACCORDING TO POOL STORE SPECS)
    30000 GALLONS ??
    1 3/4 HP PUMP
    MOD MEDIA CARTRIDGE FILTER
    POLARIS CLEANER
    DIGITAL AUTP PILOT SWG

  9. Back To Top    #9
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Your FC level is too low and PH towards the high end of the range.

    With CYA around 60 you want to keep FC between 5 and 9.

    You don't want to add any more CYA.

    Muriatic acid is just fine. You do need to be somewhat careful when adding muriatic acid. You should wear eye protection while handling muriatic acid and avoid breathing the fumes. Muriatic acid should be poured slowly in front of a return with the pump running. Once the muriatic acid has had 30 minutes to mix-in it will be completely safe.

    You really should be getting your own test kit. Pool store test results are not reliable and their advice has been all over the place. You will have much better results if you do your own testing and learn to take care of things without their help.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Muratic acid is fine. You did the right thing putting it in there. The kids could have gone in the pool an hour after you put it in there.
    Because pool store testing is so suspect I wouldn't add any more CYA to your pool right now.
    You really should consider getting your own test kit.
    The FC is too low but since you put the SWCG in boost mode we don't know what it is now. How quick can you have another sample tested?
    Your alkalinity is a little high but it'll come down as you adjust your pH down. In fact you could go ahead and add a little more MA (muratic acid) to bring your pH down to about 7.4 now.
    Remember keep your pump running when adding chems and at least an hour after. Also, you can swim an hour after adding chems too.

    [ETA] Jason and I were typing at the same time.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  11. Back To Top    #11
    dmanb2b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    3,728

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    New...Welcome to TFP...have you considered purchasing your own test kit? I promise it will pu you in control of your own pool and avoid annoying tripd to the PS. I would recommend the TF100 (TFtestkits.net) or the Taylor k-2006. With the advice here and use of the poolcalculator.com tool...you'll save a ton. Read through Pool School if you haven't done so already
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Dman, already have the ts 100 kit in my cart, just waitng to get a little more cash on my debit card before purchasing. Bama, the pool store is up the road from me. I can get the water tested from them anytime. But I think they use test strips to check everything. the other pool store puts it into some type of box reader to get results in small square vials. I know pool stores can be all over the place. LAst year I took the same sample to three different stores and got three different readings and way off from each other. In the mean time, Someone said there is a testing kit at wall mart that is not so bad, so i might pick that up tonite. so i have something until the ts100 comes.
    18x36 IGP WITH ROMAN ENDS SO TECHNICALLY 18 X 44
    (ACCORDING TO POOL STORE SPECS)
    30000 GALLONS ??
    1 3/4 HP PUMP
    MOD MEDIA CARTRIDGE FILTER
    POLARIS CLEANER
    DIGITAL AUTP PILOT SWG

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Okay so I picked up a kit at Walmart. Here are the results.

    total chlorine 5
    bromine 10
    ph was between the colors of 7.5 and 7.8
    alk 180
    hardness somewhere between 260 and 300( i wasnt sure how blue it was supposed to turn from the original red color-- also it didnt origianlly really turn red it was almost a pinkish color.)
    cya in between the 50 and 60 mark. i am guessing 55.

    how are the above numbers now???
    I must add though that the chlorine was really hard to tell because the test tube colors kinda all looked the same shade
    18x36 IGP WITH ROMAN ENDS SO TECHNICALLY 18 X 44
    (ACCORDING TO POOL STORE SPECS)
    30000 GALLONS ??
    1 3/4 HP PUMP
    MOD MEDIA CARTRIDGE FILTER
    POLARIS CLEANER
    DIGITAL AUTP PILOT SWG

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Pool Start up and Salt support Vs uv shield

    Those are pretty good numbers

    I'd probably bump the FC up a couple of ppm and bring the pH down to 7.2. That'll help your TA a little.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •