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Thread: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

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    Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    I probably not doing things right
    I’ve been using the BBB method on my 15k gal pool for 10 months now, and all my tests ever tell me is that I need bleach, and about one a week or two muriatic acid to lower the PH. Am using the TF test kit and my average readings are:
    PH: 7.5
    TA: 112
    CH: 490
    CYA: 46

    1. Is that normal that I have never needed Borax or Baking soda?
    2. Is it normal that I need to lower my PH every week or two?
    3. I probably don’t maintain religiously my TC level—it’s usually 1 or .5 when I test and bring up every couple of days. Does that explain anything?
    4. Does it also explain why every few weeks I see algae build up (which I brush off but don't add any algecide)?
    5. Is there a better/less costly way to lower PH than muriatic acid from HomeDepot?
    6. When should TA, CH & CYA levels be of great concern?

    Thx for your help
    Peter
    First time owner, 15k gallon inground, Pentair FNS36 DE, just installed Hybrid-Pump X2, Solar Heater, PoolCleaner, FT100 kit, BBB, brood of six.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Your TA and CH levels are both a little high, nothing too serious, but it would be good to bring TA down a little to compensate for the slightly high CH level.

    The reason you are getting algae is because you let the chlorine level go too low.

    1) Normal
    2) If you lower your TA the PH won't go up as much.
    3) Right
    4) Yes
    5) No. Muriatic acid is the best choice. It should be costing $4 to $6 per gallon for 31.45%
    6) Your CYA is fine
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    1. Is that normal that I have never needed Borax or Baking soda?
    Yup. Your TA is naturally high, so you wouldn't wouldn't add baking soda to raise TA, and high TA means pH drifts up so you don't need to use borax

    2. Is it normal that I need to lower my PH every week or two?
    Yup...high TA and using liquid chlorine means pH will drift up

    3. I probably don’t maintain religiously my TC level—it’s usually 1 or .5 when I test and bring up every couple of days. Does that explain anything?
    It doesn't have anything to do with #1 & #2

    4. Does it also explain why every few weeks I see algae build up (which I brush off but don't add any algecide)?
    Sho nuff does

    5. Is there a better/less costly way to lower PH than muriatic acid from HomeDepot?
    Nope

    6. When should TA, CH & CYA levels be of great concern?
    Your CYA is fine, but you always want to maintain your FC higher than the minimum for your CYA level.
    With high CH you want to keep an eye on your calcite saturation index to make sure you don't get scaling. You can use the pool calculator to determine your CSI based on CH, TA, CYA, pH, temp, etc. This means you may need to reduce TA and you want to make sure your pH never gets too high.

    If you want to keep your pool sparkling and avoid problems your should really try to test and adjust (at least pH and FC) more frequently.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
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    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    1. Is that normal that I have never needed Borax or Baking soda?
    Yes, your PH has a tendancy to rise and your TA is on the high side, but will come down if you keep adding MA
    2. Is it normal that I need to lower my PH every week or two? Yes, because of the TA being on the high side, your PH will tend to rise
    3. I probably don’t maintain religiously my TC level—it’s usually 1 or .5 when I test and bring up every couple of days. Does that explain anything? No, other than you may run into algae issues if you keep letting your FC drop below recommended levels
    4. Does it also explain why every few weeks I see algae build up (which I brush off but don't add any algecide)?Ahah...see my answer to #3...with CYA at 50 (not sure how you got 46?) your minimum FC is 4ppm, and if you do not check often you should probably target an FC of 7-8...which is a little higher than needed, but will give you buffer. Given you have alagae, what is your CC reading? Do you need to shock?
    5. Is there a better/less costly way to lower PH than muriatic acid from HomeDepot? True Value recently ran a sale for $5.99 per gal and make sure it is 20 Baume
    6. When should TA, CH & CYA levels be of great concern?
    TA should be adjusted down if you are experiencing frequent PH rise...having to add MA every 1-2 weeks is not that bad, but you would benefit from lowering your TA. CH above 400 can be problematic if you let your PH rise above 7.8. CYA should be adjusted down once levels are over 50 for a non-swg pool or over 80-90 on a swg pool.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    We should have Peter vote on the best response.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Sparklypoolitis, I guess... I hit submit too quick
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Since I also have high TA and CH fill water, I actually haven't used any of the BBB's unless you count a SWG as a B.

    About the only chems I need are salt, acid and CYA so I guess I have a SAC pool instead of a BBB pool.
    Mark
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    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Oh come on, you're not THAT close to Sacramento.
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Thx for the many and quick replies! Don't you guys have anything better to do?
    Obvious you're all graduates of the same school.
    OK, let's see...what have I learned?

    1. Lower my TA to help maintain pH
    2. Test and maintain FC and pH levels more frequently (I'll keep to daily for now) for more sparkling pool free of algae

    dmanb2b - I'll check CC and see if I need to shock.
    Thx again everyone!
    First time owner, 15k gallon inground, Pentair FNS36 DE, just installed Hybrid-Pump X2, Solar Heater, PoolCleaner, FT100 kit, BBB, brood of six.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Hi Pete - until this year I never needed Borax or Baking Soda, or anything else, just bleach. This year I've been using trichlor (long story) and had to add Borax.

    Anyway - to prevent the algae spots - keep your FC up above your "Min" at all times. So add enough each evening to reach your "target" and that should keep you above the "min" by the next day. If it doesn't use a higher target number. Does that make sense?

    You should do an overnight FC loss test to rule out whether shocking is necessary (if the CC is not higher than .5).
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    "You should do an overnight FC loss test to rule out whether shocking is necessary (if the CC is not higher than .5)"

    Thx FPM, but can you expound on that--about the overnight loss? What am I looking for?
    Got it on the FC...I need to keep it up religously, and above minimum.
    P.
    First time owner, 15k gallon inground, Pentair FNS36 DE, just installed Hybrid-Pump X2, Solar Heater, PoolCleaner, FT100 kit, BBB, brood of six.

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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Also, on the bit of algae that's now forming, will it die away with FC upkeep, or do I need to shock or treat with algecide?
    Thx
    Peter T
    First time owner, 15k gallon inground, Pentair FNS36 DE, just installed Hybrid-Pump X2, Solar Heater, PoolCleaner, FT100 kit, BBB, brood of six.

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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    The best deal I have found for muriatci acid 31.45% is at warehouse pool supply. I get 4 gallons for around 20.00. At home depot or lowes it runs around 12.00 for 2 gallons.
    13,000 Plaster IG Pool approx
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    If you're seeing algae forming then you need to shock.

    Algaecide is a preventative not a cure. And it's a waste of money if you keep your FC above minimum at all times.

    Test your FC and CC and report back but you should start shocking right away.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Here's instructions on how to do the overnight loss test:
    Overnight FC Loss Test
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    Thx guys,
    I guess if I'm staring at green patches along one side of my pool, I should by-pass the overnight loss test and proceed with shock treatment.
    P
    First time owner, 15k gallon inground, Pentair FNS36 DE, just installed Hybrid-Pump X2, Solar Heater, PoolCleaner, FT100 kit, BBB, brood of six.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    um, ya
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    um, is there a preferred method of shock here at TFP?
    I read somewhere that I should be shocking every other week on a regular basis, and even weekly during summer and after heavy use. Is that necessary?
    Peter
    First time owner, 15k gallon inground, Pentair FNS36 DE, just installed Hybrid-Pump X2, Solar Heater, PoolCleaner, FT100 kit, BBB, brood of six.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    You should only shock if you really need to. I have shocked my pool maybe twice in 5 years. Usual reasons are high CC or algae.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Wny I never get to use two B's of the BBB method

    And yes we do have a preferred method.

    Raise your FC level to shock according to your CYA and test and raise it as often as every hour until it starts holding. Keep it there until you can pass the overnight chlorine loss test found in pool school. (loss of 1ppm or less overnight, no more than .5 ppm CC's if you're using the FAS-DPD test.)
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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