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Thread: My water is crystal clear everywhere but in front of light

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    My water is crystal clear everywhere but in front of light

    Right now, my water is pretty clear, almost crystal clear. I can see the bottom of the pool very clearly and any inperfections in the surface. The only part that doesn't look crystal clear is in front of the light (at night) when the light illuminates all the particles. But aside from the beam of light that you can see, the pool otherwise looks great.

    I want m water to be CRYSTAL clear though. What is it that typically causes the cloudiness that can only be observed at night through a light? How can I get rid of it?
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    Re: My water is crystal clear everywhere but in front of light

    edit after adding some post below, going off topic too. Nice Guy, I have totally hijacked your thread. I'm sorry. I got away from myself.

    On the very basic level it boils down to what type of filter you are using. The very finest filtration, in particle size, is achieved with a DE filter, which typically filters down to about 5 microns. If you use cellulose, in your DE filter, you can filter down closer to 2 microns. If you want finer filtration be prepared to spend many K$ for a mini commercial purification lab. The number of hours you run the circulation system, using a DE filter, with cellulose media, can contribute to greater or lessor fine particle elimination in your water.

    I live in a very dusty environment, with high winds. Some of our dust is < 1 micron. Virtually all pools, out this way, use DE filters because of this. Since I started using cellulose, instead of DE, the "mist" in front of the light, at night, has lessened considerably.

    That's basically it in a nutshell.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: My water is crystal clear everywhere but in front of light

    If you could put an airtight lid on the pool, I bet the water would end up as clear as bottled water. But stuff is constantly blowing in, and filtration/circulation is sorta random, so there are small particles in the water. They're everywhere, they just don't show up unless they're close to the light.

    Don't worry about it - every time someone jumps in they bring a load of particles with them. You'll never get perfect water. If you toss a quarter in the shallow end, can you tell heads or tails from the deck? Good enough.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: My water is crystal clear everywhere but in front of light

    I just wanted to say since Alice mentioned it (even though she probably lives hundreds of miles from the worst of it) , west Texas dust is evil. I used to go out to west Texas camping every couple of years and I can tell you West Texas Dust is some of the some of the most annoying "dirt" in the world, it is made up of micro fine particles, think talcum powder or finer, now add a static charge so it sticks to everything. When I would get home from a camping trip everything would be covered with it, it would not wash off of tents, instead it would clump together in a paste like mud and turn back to dust as it dried. Clothes had to be washed multiple times to get the dust out, things like shoes, sleeping bags, etc would never be the same again, there is just no way to get all the dust out.

    Back to the question, simply put you have suspended particles, to reduce them you need better filtration, DE Is the best type, I could not believe the difference it made when I installed a DE filter to replace a sand filter a couple of years ago. DE filters also take the most work, but you know what they say about getting what you pay for....

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: My water is crystal clear everywhere but in front of light

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    I just wanted to say since Alice mentioned it (even though she probably lives hundreds of miles from the worst of it) , west Texas dust is evil. I used to go out to west Texas camping every couple of years and I can tell you West Texas Dust is some of the some of the most annoying "dirt" in the world, it is made up of micro fine particles, think talcum powder or finer, now add a static charge so it sticks to everything. When I would get home from a camping trip everything would be covered with it, it would not wash off of tents, instead it would clump together in a paste like mud and turn back to dust as it dried. Clothes had to be washed multiple times to get the dust out, things like shoes, sleeping bags, etc would never be the same again, there is just no way to get all the dust out.

    Back to the question, simply put you have suspended particles, to reduce them you need better filtration, DE Is the best type, I could not believe the difference it made when I installed a DE filter to replace a sand filter a couple of years ago. DE filters also take the most work, but you know what they say about getting what you pay for....

    Ike
    Uh Oh.......... don't get geekgranny started on dust.

    You have most beautifully and aptly described my whole existence. One doesn't fight it; one adapts. Wow, can I quote you? I'll give you credit.

    We live at the highest elevation between the OK/TX border to the gulf coast, on an escartpment, that separates the Prarie lands of west Texas, beginning just east of Fort Worth, and the Piney Woods of east Texas. That's geological. This area is know as the Cross Timbers, that harbors plant species from central Texas, west Texas, and east Texas. Quite unique. The escarpment, an uprising, is composed many geological periods, and is rich in shale (and gas underneath), limestone, and clay deposits; or can we say chalk. Just south of us, seven miles, are three of the ten largest cement factories in the US. Most, if not all, of the raw materials are mined locally in open pits. From spring through summer, and part of fall, much of our wind comes from the south. Being at the high elevation, by Texas standards, we get much of our wind, the rest of the year, from the north west Texas plains.

    I intimately know the "cement" dust. It is finer than DE powder and shares many of its properties, including sapping the moisture out of bugs and human skin. I have referred to my DE filter, using cellulose, as a mini cement factory. What ends up in my pool, on a weekly basis, is surely more, in one weeks time, than most people encounter in a whole year. The powder finds it's way through the tiniest spaces. You have to wear gloves handling anything the dust lands on as the dust saps the moisture right out of your skin. I vacuum walls and ceilings a few times a year. AC filters are vacuumed, or washed, weekly. There's no dusting here until surfaces are vacuumed. Now, I'll have to admit, my country house dogs bring the majority of the dust into the house so people who live in "normal" houses do have less dust than we have.

    It is very difficult for most people to grasp the concept of such EXTREME conditions. You have explained it so well and verified what I attempt to describe, over and over again.

    Thank you.

    I have a Pentair Quad 80 filter. It and the Intelliflo VF demand that I backwash weekly, using cellulose. I do, occasionally, fool the pump into "thinking" that the filter is less clogged than it really is by upping my clean starting psi in the settings. I had resigned myself to skip the weekly backwash and open the filter to hose off the stuff (Quad uses cartridges instead of grids) that is so difficult to remove via backwashing. Today I didn't have time to do that so I used a technique of backwashing, rinsing, sitting, over and over again, that did result in a considerable lowering of the filter psi. It only took about 500 gallons; the least amount of water I've used backwashing since installing the new filter.

    Thanks Ike. You are my new hero. See, you guys, I'm not totally off my rocker. I don't deny a tendency towards exaggeration, at times, but there is no way one can exaggerate enough when describing this evil, microscopic dust.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: My water is crystal clear everywhere but in front of light

    Your welcome to quote me, but really the only way one really learns to fully understand west Texas dust is to spend at least a week living in a tent in anywhere in Texas west of the Pecos River. It is an ingraining experience in more ways than one.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    Re: My water is crystal clear everywhere but in front of light

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    Your welcome to quote me, but really the only way one really learns to fully understand west Texas dust is to spend at least a week living in a tent in anywhere in Texas west of the Pecos River. It is an ingraining experience in more ways than one.

    Ike
    Not totally off topic as it relates to the EXTREME dust that finds its way into the pool and some of the "dust in the pool" helpers.

    I agree and we have a good enough "taste" of it here.

    I can't count the number of people who have "dusted" here only to come back in a couple of days to find everything covered, as if they hadn't even touched it. I get so many, "I see what you mean."

    For many, many years I had full time help who also helped me with the dogs. I was on the road dog showing, a good part of the year (mostly weekends). One person can't keep up with it, even working over time. I had one person who vacuumed when she got here, after doing some other quick chores first, like kitchen, then mopped, using three bucket method, vacuumed surfaces for several hours a day, did some dusting after vacuuming, a few other chores, then mopped before she left. Those were not my "standards", rather hers. My standards are much lower than that.

    I have an army of robot floor cleaners now, Electrolux Trilobites, and all models of iRobot cleaners. Running only one Roomba quickly fills it up in a few minutes so I typically run 5-7 daily, en mass. They have to be emptied and cleaned daily. Before, (read on) if I missed a day, I ran the workshop, Dirtdogs first, five at a time. Floors get Scoobaed weekly, at the very least, six running at a time, usually for 3 or 4 cycles each, per "mopping" day. I have extra batteries and chargers. This is just for the downstairs tile. Until I closed down the upstairs three Electrolux Trilobites were assigned to that area. They are "real" vacuums, with heavy motors and strong suction, able to withstand the rigors of "difficult" carpet. The bins are huge compared to the Roombas. They have now replaced the Dirtdogs, downstairs, to pre clean the dust, grit, and hair, used daily, prior to running the Roombas. That way I can go two days before I have to clean out the Roombas. The floor stays at barefoot comfort for an hour or so after they are cleaned. But we rarely go barefooted because of the occasional scorpion scurrying about. Scorpions and a few spiders are about the only bugs that survive our DE like dust for very long in the house.

    Oh, yes, geekgranny likes her 'bots and gadgets. I even have a robot sentry, with camera, that scurries around the house keeping tabs and reporting to me via Internet or phone call. I would love to get the battery powered robot pool cleaner but that is way down on the list. Thank goodness the dogs accept the 'bots as just another member of the family to be tolerated only. Otherwise I would have them eaten at the rate I used to have pool cleaners "rescued" and then "killed".

    I know this is so totally off topic but here's one of our brand new Australian Cattle Monster girls, just days after coming here. She's chewing on a chicken jerky.




    And here's what the new puppies really think about the Scooba or maybe my efforts to housebreak them.

    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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