also, is there another (quicker) way to add some stabilizer to the pool? I have it in the sock now, but I know that will work slow.
Pool cloudy, mostly in deep end
- Thread starter Mattyssox
- Start date
You can "massage" the sock to help the CYA dissolve a little faster if you want, but there really isn't much of a need to get it in any faster than what you're doing. CYA acts as a buffer, not a sanitizer, so making fast changes with it is not necessary.
As to why have pucks and chlorinators at all, it depends on how deep you want to get into the subject. The easy answer is that much of the pool industry doesn't care about or understand the effects that CYA level has on chlorine effectiveness. If you want to go to the depths of the answer, I'd start with this thread. Happy reading!!!
As to why have pucks and chlorinators at all, it depends on how deep you want to get into the subject. The easy answer is that much of the pool industry doesn't care about or understand the effects that CYA level has on chlorine effectiveness. If you want to go to the depths of the answer, I'd start with this thread. Happy reading!!!
Mattyssox said:
There is a liquid stabilizer that is virtually instant, but it is pricey.
Most of us use the granules. And if in a hurry, as loughps said, massage the sock to help it along.
Members are reporting that the Wallyworld's CYA is more powdery and dissolves faster.
You can use your chlorinator w/pucks when you go on vacation
Mattyssox said:
Because pool builders like to make it look easy. And pool stores don't understand the CYA/Chlorine relationship. Pool chemical companies want you to have high cYA so you have to use more and more pucks, shock, clarifiers, algaecide, etc etc....follow the $$$$$.
Pucks have to have a binder in them either CYA or calcium in order to be pucks. So no. There are no pucks that are just chlorine, which is why we are all so obsessed with liquid chlorine and bleach..pucks have a purpose early in the season or on vacations, and pool school explains that thoroughly.
Chuck the pucks, jug dump. It's the best way.
svenpup
LifeTime Supporter
Chuck the pucks! Dump the jug!
Chuck the pucks! Dump the jug!
Chuck the pucks! Dump the jug!
So Chris, you have only been a member for a month, you have 3x as many posts as me, and you sound like an old pro. Another convert drinks the kool aid.
Chuck the pucks! Dump the jug!
Chuck the pucks! Dump the jug!
So Chris, you have only been a member for a month, you have 3x as many posts as me, and you sound like an old pro. Another convert drinks the kool aid.
darn near 2 months thank you...
And I'm chatty by nature.
I love this site because it allows me to use my brain, unlike watching icarly, hannah montana, or the so called 'news'.
I am a stay at home mom, with a double strength laptop and a blackberry and I'm poolside a lot with my kiddo. I have some time.
And, I find being pals and helping people online leads to less drama in my real life. I can shut the computer off when I've had enough.
And I'm chatty by nature.
I love this site because it allows me to use my brain, unlike watching icarly, hannah montana, or the so called 'news'.
I am a stay at home mom, with a double strength laptop and a blackberry and I'm poolside a lot with my kiddo. I have some time.
And, I find being pals and helping people online leads to less drama in my real life. I can shut the computer off when I've had enough.
if the pucks have cya, then why has my pool repeatedly registered at zero CYA by pool stores and my own tests?
Is it just really that slow? I don't go through a puck a day or anything (maybe 2 a week?) I'm not sure..
Is it just really that slow? I don't go through a puck a day or anything (maybe 2 a week?) I'm not sure..
svenpup
LifeTime Supporter
There is no "if". Trichlor pucks add CYA.
Each 8oz puck would add about 1ppm CYA to your pool (32,000gal). If pucks are your only source of CYA (you never use dichlor to shock) and you have significant water replacement (frequent backwashing, excessive splash out, leak with an auto-fill) than your CYA may never climb.
Each 8oz puck would add about 1ppm CYA to your pool (32,000gal). If pucks are your only source of CYA (you never use dichlor to shock) and you have significant water replacement (frequent backwashing, excessive splash out, leak with an auto-fill) than your CYA may never climb.
Splash out, backwashing -- basically any water replacement dilutes CYA. Also CYA does very, very slowly break down. I don't think anyone is going to be able to give you a really concrete answer as to why you have not seen a steady increase. My CYA goes to zero every winter and I open up with 4 - 6 ppm of ammonia. It's surmised that soil bacteria getting under the safety cover combined with no free chlorine over the winter allow the bacteria to convert CYA to ammonia, which I battle with lots of chlorine upon opening. But just a little FC kills the bacteria, so that's not likely what's keeping yours down.
It is possible for bacteria "pockets" to live in the sand filter that don't get a high enough level of chlorine that may contribute to CYA continuing to covert to ammonia even when the pool water shows high enough chlorine levels. I took apart my sand filter when I opened this year and thoroughly cleaned the sand and my CYA has been holding steady since I opened. The main thing is to know what your levels of everything are and what effects anything you add to your water will have. That will give you the most control of what happens with your pool.
Most people that use stabilized chlorine as their primary chlorine source end up with an over-stabilized pool. I don't have any real answer to why you don't, but would say that now that you know it can happen you're in more control. If you continue to use pucks AND keep an eye on your free chlorine, pH and CYA level and keep everything balanced, you shouldn't have any problems, but that's not the experience of the majority of people on this forum. I believe that if you continue to use pucks and keep testing, you will see your CYA increase as the season goes on. It's also hard to use pucks to maintain the right free chlorine level you'll need to get rid of the cloud that's been plaguing you.
I can't imagine that was a very satisfying answer and the experts may elaborate on it, but that's about the best I can give you. I think your best hope for a clear pool is liquid chlorine and just being happy you didn't have to drain half your pool to get your CYA under control.
It is possible for bacteria "pockets" to live in the sand filter that don't get a high enough level of chlorine that may contribute to CYA continuing to covert to ammonia even when the pool water shows high enough chlorine levels. I took apart my sand filter when I opened this year and thoroughly cleaned the sand and my CYA has been holding steady since I opened. The main thing is to know what your levels of everything are and what effects anything you add to your water will have. That will give you the most control of what happens with your pool.
Most people that use stabilized chlorine as their primary chlorine source end up with an over-stabilized pool. I don't have any real answer to why you don't, but would say that now that you know it can happen you're in more control. If you continue to use pucks AND keep an eye on your free chlorine, pH and CYA level and keep everything balanced, you shouldn't have any problems, but that's not the experience of the majority of people on this forum. I believe that if you continue to use pucks and keep testing, you will see your CYA increase as the season goes on. It's also hard to use pucks to maintain the right free chlorine level you'll need to get rid of the cloud that's been plaguing you.
I can't imagine that was a very satisfying answer and the experts may elaborate on it, but that's about the best I can give you. I think your best hope for a clear pool is liquid chlorine and just being happy you didn't have to drain half your pool to get your CYA under control.
ok. came home today. pool still green-cloudy.
PH at 7.4, chlorine at 5 or 6, CYA not tested, as the 8lbs are still in the sock working into the pool.
Should I use the shock you can buy in granular form to kill the green algea and just keep dumping the bleach in?
or should I just use bleach and assume the green algea will go away?
Shock seemed to kill it quicker than this daily bleaching is.
PH at 7.4, chlorine at 5 or 6, CYA not tested, as the 8lbs are still in the sock working into the pool.
Should I use the shock you can buy in granular form to kill the green algea and just keep dumping the bleach in?
or should I just use bleach and assume the green algea will go away?
Shock seemed to kill it quicker than this daily bleaching is.
Mattyssox said:
I think you will find this method is better and faster in the long run and it doesn't add stuff to your pool that you don't need.
Assume CYA 30.
Shock level is 12.
Enter 5 in the now of pool calculator (make sure all your correct data is there, especially your gallons), enter 12 as the target in FC line. Calculate. Add that much bleach.
Wait 30-45 minutes. Test again.
Enter that FC number in the Now, 12 in Target. Calculate.
Repeat as often as once per hour. You will not clear this pool unless you repeatedly and consistently get your FC to 12 and hold it there as often as possible.
If you want, target 14 or 15 at first until you see some improvement.
Pool owner patience (POP) is necessary.
it is patience etc..but i work 8-10 hours a day, so I cant be home to tame it.
So is it worth dumping the last package of shock (4-5lbs) I have into the pool in the morning and then when I get home, continuing the bleach treatment? or should i put the bleach in before I head to work.
granular shock seemed to cure algea way quicker than this gallons of bleach method.
So is it worth dumping the last package of shock (4-5lbs) I have into the pool in the morning and then when I get home, continuing the bleach treatment? or should i put the bleach in before I head to work.
granular shock seemed to cure algea way quicker than this gallons of bleach method.
Mattyssox said:
I get the working thing. While I'm around to deal with it, many around here aren't. Maybe those who balance it all can chime in with how they do things.
My suggestion is to hit it hard from the time you get home till bed time every hour to hour and a half. Then, get up early, test it, and hit it again. Before you leave, hit again if you can..... Then when you come home from work, test to see where you are and start anew...You lose so much during the day anyway to sunlight you are kind of doing you know what in the wind...ya know? Take advantage of the time you are at home.
You aren't going to make any more progress with the bag of shock than you are a bottle of bleach if you aren't consistently trying to keep the pool at or above shock level.
I really don't mean to sound harsh, and if I am I apologize. I just know this works better than anything I've ever done. I believe in it.
i hear you. I just know that I saw the green go away pretty quick with granular shock. The green tint in the pool has now been there for about 3+ days, while I have been dumping bleach into the pool with consistency.
So I'm not sure if its worth dumping in the granular shock I have for now, and continuing the bleach approach after work tomorrow. know what I mean? I have now poured about 10 jugs per day for 3 days. so the 'bleach' method is now breaking the bank worse than the granular shock. ya know?
So I'm not sure if its worth dumping in the granular shock I have for now, and continuing the bleach approach after work tomorrow. know what I mean? I have now poured about 10 jugs per day for 3 days. so the 'bleach' method is now breaking the bank worse than the granular shock. ya know?
Mattyssox said:
I plugged in your figures into the PCalc. I am assuming 33K gallons with average depth of 5.5 feet.
To get to a FC of 12 from the 5 you reported..you'd have to add 3 gallons, 3 quarts of 6% bleach. That's roughly 2.6 of the large jugs...around here that's about 7.50 and it doesn't add anything you don't need to the pool like calcium, copper, CYA, etc. and it you dont' have to mix it or sweep up the left over granules from the bottom (which bleached my liner last year)
Likewise, if you add 2# of 73% calcium hypo (which I don't know if your shock is even 73%, it could be lower, in which case you'll have to use more) you are spending roughly the same amount, possibly more? and adding calcium you don't need and possibly copper, as geek granny explained.
You can decide. Plug it into the pool calculator. Pick your poison so to speak and it will tell you how much to add of whatever you choose. In the 'effects of adding chemicals section' it gives all the effects of adding whatever you choose. Chlorine is chlorine so use up what you have. I'm thankful for you that it isn't dichlor and you don't have a ridiculous CYA to deal with.
I think that if you set aside tomorrow night from the time you get home and then every 60-90 minutes of testing, adding, testing, adding until you go to sleep with whatever you decide to use, you'll see a big difference and you will likely hit 12 ppm on one of those retests.
Just to give you a comparison, my most recent shocking episode, in 16k gallons of water, I went through roughly 18 large jugs of bleach and 8 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine. I shocked for nearly 4 strait days. And my water wasn't cloudy. My CYA is 55... maintaining 22-24 shock value for 4 days...it ain't fun.
This year to date with TWO shocking periods and a week of too much FC use I have just now reached the point of purchasing one large bucket of pucks. That doesn't count the algaecides, clarifiers, phosphate removers, and the pound after pound of granulated shock I've purchased each year. I really hope you can find renewed motivation to see this through. Take some pictures. I promise it will sparkle. :-D
Edit: I saw above where you said you're dumping 10 jugs a day...I think that if even if you used granulated shock as often as what you need in the quantity you need as often as you need, you'd find yourself dumping granulated shock in larger quantities. Granulated shock doesn't raise the FC level any faster than LC in the appropriate quantities for the same targets. Chlorine is chlorine is chlorine. Pool calculator is your friend. Keep plugging along, and feel free to post a summary of what your tests are, how much you add and what your target is. Hang in there!
In terms of chlorine content, a 182-oz jug of 6% bleach equals a 1-lb bag of 73% cal-hypo. So your 10 jugs are the same as 10 bags (or more, if the cal-hypo is lower strength). The cal-hypo doesn't weigh as much, but it adds 7pm CH for each 10ppm FC. You need to make your own judgement about the price/convenience/consequence tradeoff.
--paulr
--paulr
woke up, still green, pool tested at about 7 total chlorine so i put in three more jugs.
a little later today, I'm going to google the most jugs of chlorine bought in a one week span. I assume I'm knocking on the record.
a little later today, I'm going to google the most jugs of chlorine bought in a one week span. I assume I'm knocking on the record.
Vinyl liners are another issue that needs to be considered when adding chemicals to your pool.
When starting out as a new pool owner, I did what the pool guy told me to do in regards to chemical application, ie, dump 'em in the deep end. After a few seasons of doing exactly this, I began to notice that the pool liner was beginning to pucker in the deep end. It was only afterward that I found out that acid based chemicals had a deleterious affect on plastics when in direct contact. Not knowing any better, I just let those acid containing granules (such as granular dichlor, cya, etc.) sit at the bottom of the pool without any forethought. Needless to say, I had to replace the liner a couple of seasons thereafter when it began to "float".
So its a good idea when adding granular based chemicals to a vinyl covered pool to use the sock method of introduction or use liquids. Since my past bad experience with the cover, I tend to be a bit anal about how I introduce chemicals into the pool. I prefer to use my skimmer as my method of application for all my pool chemicals. I am NOT advocating that anyone else use this method as everyone has different pool equipment and configurations. I know, there are other contributors who would cringe at this, but since I have a KISS system, there is little chance that I will harm my equipment. But, this is just me...I would rather replace some seals in my equipment because they failed as a result of skimmer chemical intro than have to replace a $2,000 pool cover prematurely. I'm into my sixth season now with the liner and using my method of chemical intro. The liner is as tight as the day it was installed, with no visible bleach spots, and no damage to my equipment. By diluting the chemicals first, I believe I had reduced the chances of equipment failure. Again, each pool owner has to decide what is the best course of action for their pool. There are other threads on the forum discussing the issue of skimmer chemical intro.
Mattyssox said:
They do make cal-hypo pucks, which would not add CYA, just calcium and chlorine. What is the name on the bucket of pucks?
When I am working and need to shock, I test and bring it to shock level just after sundown. That keeps the sun from burning off chlorine before it can do its job. You may want to bump up the chlorine a few ppm to help the chlorine levels hold a little longer.
not sure where my posting went..
anyways. I do care about my liner so I appreciate the advice on that!
My issue is seeing improvement on the green/cloudy pool. I'm dumping large amounts of bleach into the water daily, and I haven't seen improvement since Monday (when I noticed green tint starting). I keep coming home from work or waking up in the morning hoping to see some improvement from the last batch of bleach I put in. When I woke up this morning, the bleach was 5-6 ish? and so I put in more bleach. I'm just looking to see SOME improvement when I get home. etc..
This is like asking the pretty girl in the class out 20 times and being rejected 20 times. Eventually you wonder if you should just stop asking her out.
anyways. I do care about my liner so I appreciate the advice on that!
My issue is seeing improvement on the green/cloudy pool. I'm dumping large amounts of bleach into the water daily, and I haven't seen improvement since Monday (when I noticed green tint starting). I keep coming home from work or waking up in the morning hoping to see some improvement from the last batch of bleach I put in. When I woke up this morning, the bleach was 5-6 ish? and so I put in more bleach. I'm just looking to see SOME improvement when I get home. etc..
This is like asking the pretty girl in the class out 20 times and being rejected 20 times. Eventually you wonder if you should just stop asking her out.