Pool bids are in - The bids seem quite pricey

[LD]

2 pool bids are in for a 15 x 40 rectangular in-ground - no spa - no heat - gunite - pebbletech - depths - 3'9'" to 6" - flowcrete decking (6 ft. on 3 sides and 8 ft. at pool entrance). Also Sunshelf (room for 2 loungers at 6" depth) and 4 deck jets.

1st bid wants to install a Paramount in-floor system with ozone and chorine tabs with CoverPool automatic pool cover.
6x6 frostproof waterline tile with spot tile on steps/bench - (2) 120 volt 300 watt pool light
acrylic topped deck with cantilever edge pool coping, compacted soil with Pilasters as required for grade
cartridge filter and energy saving pump and time clock
in-line chlorinator
ozone oxidizer
pool cleaner line and valve (pressure side only for safety)
manual cleaning equipment
start up with initial chemical balance and professional pool orientation

2nd bid wants to install a Intellichlor salt chlorinator
Pentair Great White Auto cleaner
cartridge filter
pump is a Sta-rite Max E-Pro with a Aquamatic automatic pool cover.
LED light in pool
waterline tile
notes section: quote makes no provision for retaining walls, fill dirt, or rock to control underground water if needed.
(This is troubling - its Florida - we dig down 3 feet and find water in most yards.)


Now the 1st bid says that I can't use a salt system with an automatic pool cover because it will void the warranty on the pool cover (is that really true?). Also you can walk all the way around the perimeter of the pool with this pool cover unlike the Aquamatic pool cover.

The 2nd bidder did not mention that at all. He did say that with an Aquamatic Pool cover that no one can walk on one end of it - I thought that was bizarre since you are supposed to be able to walk on the pool cover but not what it is stored in on the pool decking???

Both bids were around $53,000. I don't think we are getting much value here. We are located in central Florida.

Other conditions: We have to go with a automatic pool cover which is expensive ($10,000 to $12,000) because we hate screened areas, need safety, and several times a year have huge swarms of blind mosquitoes invade from the lake. We do not have any leaves or other debris normally.

So are we getting any bang for our buck here? Did I just underestimate how much a 15x40 pool initially costs?

LD

 

[niceguymr]

Let me preface this by saying I know nothing about new pool constuction or bidding or anything like that. I live in South Florida and have had a swimming pool most of my life although it wasn't until recently that I actually became the pool 'owner'.

I hear what you're saying about why you need a pool cover but I've never known anyone in South Florida to have one, particularly b/c of the climate. People that have problems with bugs usually have a screened in pool area (which I dislike too) or deal with the mosquitoes and bugs in ways other than a pool cover. I could be totally off base about this since I'm not in your situation and as I mentioned, I'm not an expert in any way. I just don't like pool covers and think they're useless in year round warm climates.

I apologize in advance if I'm completely wrong in my assertion.

ETA: I live approximately 1 mile from the Everglades (swampland) in an area that's surrounded by lakes. We have mosquitoes bad out here in the summer.

ETA2: For safety reasons, almost every pool owner I know has a removable safety screen/gate built around the pool. Not saying this is a better choice than a pool cover.

 

[dykes26]

Did you generalize your post or are the bids this vague?

Make sure that you get everything specific and post it here. There are amazing people on this board who will help guide you to the more specific things that you will want spelled out for you so that your build will be less stressful. I found this site after we signed the contract and I thought I had it all figured out. I love our pool but the people on this board would have made the build much less stressful. I have some basic regrets, but would not have had I fired away here first.

My list of detail-

Plumbing size
exact automation system with part numbers
exact pump name size and part numbers
ditto with all parts and products etc.
exact prices for hitting rock water etc.
length of dig runs
time frame for build and what SPECIFIC to expect if they miss that time frame.

Its your house and pool. Do not allow any vagueness in any of this. Professional pool builders will provide this information if asked but often will not if you don't. The more ambiguity the more stress. Our PB was a good guy but we had some disagreements that worked out well but were very stressful to deal with. I was blessed that he ultimately kept his word on most of the contract details but I wish I had everything in writing ( I thought I did))

 

[lbridges]

Does the $53K price include the cover? If yes, and you are right about the cost of those things, the price seems good - if not, then I think it is too high.

My pool is done except for the installation of the Intellichlor IC-40 (see sig for pool size, etc). The build was to my shape but their design/engineering and included:
~50 ft of brushed sidewalk from patio around side of house to equipment pad,
acrylic deck coating over 110 sq ft of existing patio (that they acid washed and prepped),
about 600 sq ft more of new deck - acrylic coated too,
about 110 ft of Baby Guard Fencing,
manual cleaning equipment,
one month of pool service (between water fill and SWG install)
and the price was just over $30K.

I should think the pebble finish would raise the price around $3K.

My contract included:
excavation, & fill (with compaction),
all electrical work including a pre-wire for heat pump (so I wouldn't have to pay for subpanel wiring upsize later)
all plumbing,
all permitting and government fees (like filing of a notice of commencement, inspections, etc.),
no sod or sprinkler repairs were included, nor any landscaping, and
two deadman lines (or well points, or whatever you know them as) along with 11 yards of gravel and use of a 3 HP gas powered semi-trash pump (and 1 HP electric pump to maintain the level over an extended time just before plastering) that ran as needed for the various phases to draw down the ground water down far enough. They would only have up-charged if the two pumps couldn't handle the ground water inrush.

 

[LD]

Yes, the pricing includes the automatic pool cover. And yes I typed the specs exactly from the 2 proposals. So I felt bid 1 was vague and bid 2 was specific.

Now about that automatic pool cover. We don't have mosquitoes (we used to but don't anymore) go figure HOWEVER we have blind mosquitoes and they arrive every time an east wind blows which is most of the summer in central Florida. These blind mosquitoes from time to time - say 8 times a year - are so thick that you can't open your mouth or talk to anyone when they swarm - so why not put in a screened enclosure - that will not keep most of them out plus that is just as expensive or more and ugly and to top it off - our relatively very good insurance company informed everyone last year that they will no longer cover screened enclosures. So a pool cover is looking better since we need the pool to be bug proof, keep pool security high - helps on solar gain so we can hold off on the pool heater and help keep the pool cleaner with less chemical and I really would hate to pay $2500 for the cheap looking kiddie get by fence they sell you to pass code.

I am so appreciative of your posts - I am learning lots from this forum. Thank you!

 

[LD]

The second bid salesperson just called while I was posting - he said the in-floor system would have 4-5 returns - depending on what their engineering dept. specified.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

LD, I suggest telling them to specify everything for you, as suggested by dykes26 up above. Post it here and the pros (and us chumps too) will look it over. Are there more pool builders in your area? If you think you're not getting a good value, get some more opinions if you can. I think it sounds a bit steep myself.

Regarding the in-floors, I presume 4-5 zones is what he meant? Each zone would have generally 3-5 heads. For what it's worth, I have an in-floor system and would advise not bothering with it.

 

[LD]

PB said 4-5 returns and then he said 15 - 19 in floor heads depending on what engineering dept. specifies. He never said zones and I am too much of a newbie to know to ask.

 

[LD]

Also lbridges - it was your pool that I saw on this forum that's most like what we want and I wanted to email and ask how much was your pool - so thanks very much for sharing. Your pool looks awesome.

I also assumed from your postings on your build that the lighter interior you finish with the cooler your pool will stay in summer? So if I want to avoid a pool heater, should I go with a darker interior finish? Clear me up on this.

LD

 

[lbridges]

...I also assumed from your postings on your build that the lighter interior you finish with the cooler your pool will stay in summer? So if I want to avoid a pool heater, should I go with a darker interior finish? Clear me up on this.

My pool is unshaded from dawn to dusk with no pool cage since it's not really needed beach-side in my area. So that was my plan, but I have no empirical evidence how the effect would impact real-world pool temps. I base my guess on heat gain due to light penetration through water. A dark color on a shallow end (especially on something like a baja shelf) would definitely add heat to the water. This is simple to verify using two different colored pans set in the sunlight. Past somewhere around 4 feet of depth I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of heat by absorption due to surface color (I think the water itself has absorbed most of can be absorbed for heat), but admit I've done no research (shame on me).

 

[DBfan187]

pool would cost you probably $20-35K about 4hrs north of you

 

[ivyleager]

All my friends that live in Florida (and have pools) have screened enclosures. Like this: http://www.theidyllmouse.com/one/images/101_1997.jpg

4 friends live on the gulf coast in Cape Coral, 2 live in Orlando, and 1 lives in Boca. The friends in Cape Coral live along a channel and have bugs most all the time. No way would it be pleasant to be in or around the pool with bugs. Even here in N.Carolina, I was chased from the pool tonight because of the bugs. They are no fun. Can't say I've heard too many glowing reviews or raves about automatic pool covers.

Go with the largest SWG you can get, no need for ozone unit.

 

[Brentr]

LD, your bids seems very high. We live in Jacksonville and Our pool cost @29k and it includes the screen, 1800sq ft of pavers, water features and SWG. The heat pump, intellibrite light and solar is not part of this as I added these after the pool was built. We could have gotten any size pool for the same price and the addition of a spa would have been 2-5k extra. We did not want a spa because we rather have the extra room for entertaining and to besides we can heat our pool in excess of 100 degrees with the solar running. Look at our pool build in the sig bar. Hope this helps.

 

[LD]

Getting another bid today from a more local company - we will see. I'd like more info on a semi-automatic pool cover - any ideas?

 

[Brentr]

Seems to me that Holland is quite competive. Did you look at them?

 

[Isaac-1]

In my experience it seems most pool builders give very little thought to pool pump, filtration systems and plumbing systems, they just install the same basic system in every pool they build, just in varying sizes, which may not be optimized for the pool. They often buy them in bulk, and get whatever they can get the best discount on, then install the same thing for everyone, without consulting the pool owner on what fits their lifestyle and pool location best. (Sand filters are the cheapest option and probably the lowest maintenance, where as DE filters will give you the best water quality, but take the most maintenance, pumps are a lot like automobiles just about any one of the right size will get you where you need to go, but some are built better than others, some have better parts availability, some are more efficient and a few you should run away from as fast as you can.) One place many pool builders skimp is in plumbing size for the suction and return lines, if you "oversize" them now, it will only cost you maybe an extra $100 in parts, that will save you much more than that in electricity to run the pumps in the long run.

 

[cobra46]

Both of those bids seam very vague compared to what I received from all the PB's I looked at. EVERYTHING needs to be spelled out. If not you may very well be back here telling us a story about what you thought he was supposed to do but didn't.

Read up as much as you can on plumbing. This is one of the largest factors affecting the efficiency and function of your pool and is very difficult (read expensive) to change after the fact.

Things like looped returns and individual suction lines for each skimmer and main drain can all make a difference. There are others as well.

Don't be shy about posting your questions here. By and large you will get quality information from professionals and non professionals that do not have a financial motive behind their advice unlike your PB. I'm not saying that your PB will be dishonest or do a poor job but he will be looking out for number one at the end of the day.

Good Luck

 

[LD]

Brentr - yes one of the bids is from Holland

 

[Brentr]

Brentr - yes one of the bids is from Holland

I am really surprised because they claim that their basic size pool which I think is 300-400 sq ft of pool plus equipment and 300sq ft of decking to start at 17.5k. They are throwing a spa, or salt or water feature for free too. Times must have changed in the last few mths.

 

[LD]

Holland was the vague bidder - when I pushed for specifics his response was ...so now you want me to be an engineer? I told him if he wanted me to consider his bid he should give me the specs. After reading the previous post with their sweet deal - makes me think I will bypass them if they can't do better then that - they offered no specials.

3rd bid is in - looks better - I will post when I get the options chosen. This one is a hybrid of the first two - salt system with in floor cleaning system. It's funny how each PB selects such different combinations.

Is it a bad idea to have a slide with a salt system?

Again - thanks

LD