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Thread: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

  1. #1
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    Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Hey All

    Just looking ot vent a little since i just found out i failed the bonding gris inspection for the 2nd time.

    There seems to be a fight between the inspector and my PB. My PB installed a bonding grid in accordance to 2010 NJ state law. Its basically a single copper line connected at 4 points around the pool to the rebar of the pool. The town rejected that set up, and specifically asked the PB to follow 2008 code. Is it me or does that not sound right???? Can I assuming that 2008 code was more conservative and therefore the inspector is looking out for my best interests?
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  2. #2
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    The 2008 NEC is the latest, so current law should reference that.

    A single wire is not a bonding grid. A bonding grid is literally a copper grid that is under the entire pool and deck area. I would suggest you contact the inspector for clarification as to where you are not in compliance. If NJ as a state or your local government has adopted the 2008 NEC, you are obliged to follow it.

    Here is a link to a handy page giving the changes to 680.26 for 2008: http://ecmweb.com/nec/top2008neccxs_021909/

    The wire you mention needs to go to the pump, any metal fixtures like lights, heaters, ladders, slide stands or fences, and there is also a requirement for a conductor in contact with the water if the items listed previously don't fulfill the requirement.

    From my experience with inspectors, unless the guy is trying to be a jerk, he is telling the builder that he isn't even close to being in compliance. If he though the builder was close, he'd give specifics.
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Mod Squad

    thanks for the info. I should have mentioned earlier that the cooper wire, while it does connect in 4 locations, also connects to a green wire which is in the ground and runs to both the lights and the pump
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    After reading through the information, I can only presume what the issue may be.

    It would seem the only place we did not comply is the placment of the cooper wire. According to the web site "An equipotential bonding grid shall extend 3 ft horizontally beyond the inside walls of a pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub, including unpaved". My cooper wire is resting just oputside the coping of the entire pool.
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Ohm_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Code, law, preference, whatever - It is important to realize that code interpretation belongs to the AHJ, or Authority Having Jurisdiction. That would be your inspector. You must make certain that you have work performed to his requirements.

    While some inspectors can, in my opinion, only see the inside of their own bellybuttons, most are knowledgeable, conscientious, and willing to help. Call and talk with yours.
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  6. #6
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominick
    After reading through the information, I can only presume what the issue may be.

    It would seem the only place we did not comply is the placment of the cooper wire. According to the web site "An equipotential bonding grid shall extend 3 ft horizontally beyond the inside walls of a pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub, including unpaved". My cooper wire is resting just oputside the coping of the entire pool.
    Code requires a literal grid of copper mesh if the pool or deck structure itself isn't conductive. Like this http://www.greaves-usa.com/pdf/CBM%2...%2017%2008.pdf

    Do you know that his problem is with the bonding? Some other things are required for pool electrical to be up to code. A convenience outlet, a disconnecting means for the pump, an elevated junction box for the light, clearance from overhead or buried wires amon many, many things. If you can post a picture or drawing of your pool, we might have better answers.
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    I wish I knew what exactly it is that he wants - the only infomation provided is what you see on the rejection sticker. I have call into the town to talk to him but he has not returned my call. If I don't hear back i guess I'll have to take a day off from work and go in person or have my PB go in person.
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
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  8. #8
    Senior Member dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Hi Dominick...I wish you a quick resolution to this matter. IMHO, it is on the PB to have this issue resolved for you...let them deal with the town inspector . Sounds like you have an inspector who will ensure the PB get's it right. Rejections can be a pain in the side, but they are acting in you best interest and ensuring you have a safe pool.
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Code requires a literal grid of copper mesh if the pool or deck structure itself isn't conductive.
    The grid can include the rebar. It doesn't all have to be copper. Dominick mentioned that the copper was connected to the rebar. Of course, that just makes it less clear what is going on in this situation.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    I frequent a lot of homebuilding sites as well as this one. The common advice on all of them is if you got a red tag, ask the inspector to tell you what he wants. It's the easiest and fastest way to give the inspector what they're looking for. It's the job of the PB to get the electrical right. Let him deal with the inspector since it's his job.

    Speaking from experience- around here (Maryland), the local electrical inspectors are VERY picky and take the bonding grid portion of the code seriously. A bonding wire (which it sounds like you have) and a bonding grid are quite different. And then there are the other requirements mentioned above.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Actually, I think you've answered your own question. "...also connects to a green wire which is in the ground and runs to both the lights and the pump." Two problems, first, your PB tied the equipotential bond to electrical ground - a no no. Ironic since ground and the bond typically ultimately get tied together from a case ground lug on a pump, heater, etc. This leads to the second problem. The lights and pump need to be bonded with the 8 guage bare copper wire, not an insulated wire attached to the ground. Also, the sub panel ground should not be grounded to a grounding rod, but rather tied to the ground of the main panel. By adding a second ground to a system, there can be a potential between the two grounds causing grounding issues.

    Another thing to look for is a continuous loop of bare solid 8 gauge wire connecting all the contact points. Technically that wire cannot be cut and mechanically fastened another length of 8 gauge solid copper wire. I've see hard *** inspectors fail a bond for having the wire mechanically connected to another length of wire. This can happen with poor planning. Picture running a wire around an entire pool fastening to everything wire and then leaving yourself 10' or so to tie together pad components. You start installing the pad and realize your about a foot short of reaching the booster pump after tying in the heater, pump and sub panel case. Logic says crimp on a couple of feet of bare 8 gauge and attach it to the booster. That can be worthy of a red flag.

    Lots of electricians confuse the equipotential bond with ground. Basically the equipotential bond prevents potential between objects around the pool. When there is potential, current can flow - shock!
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  12. #12
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Sorry its been awhile since my last update, but I have been traveling for business.

    Although not much to report. We have failed now 4 times with another inspection set up for this Thursday. As it turns out. The inspector was looking for the following (which I believe we have finally made right)

    -He wants to see the patio formed and filled with Substrate
    -He wants to see the copper bonding wire connected to the pool in 4 different locations and to all the equipment via the green wire
    -That copper wire then needs to be evenly spaced 18-24" around the pool and buried 4-6 into the substrate

    I'm optemistic that we will past on Thursday. After that it just Final coat on the pool and pouring the Patio!!
    Hopefully we can have this done and swiming by July 4th!!
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    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
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  13. #13
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    It could be the picture but the gravel looks like it going to result in some very thin concrete. If I were to guess it appears like there is about 2 inches from the top of the gravel to the top of the coping.
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Im happy to rteport that I finally passed inspection yesterday. After calling the inspector, he decided to swing by and take a look. Hopefully I'll have water in the pool for July 4th.

    Cobra. there is about 5-6 inches of stone down and it has been tamped with a power tamper.

    The
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
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    Free-Form Gunite with Granite Ansylbrite Finish
    40 sq/ft 18' raised spa
    Jandy DE60 filter
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  15. #15
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Well I for one, am glad you passed. I haven't posted about it but I was feeling your pain.
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Thx Bama - my kid cant wait. He calls it a "hole" and wants to know when our hole will be a pool - lol
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
    650 sq/ft - 20k gallons
    Free-Form Gunite with Granite Ansylbrite Finish
    40 sq/ft 18' raised spa
    Jandy DE60 filter
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  17. #17
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    My concern is that there is too much stone. What is the distance from the top of the tamped gravel to the top of the coping?

    Congratulations on passing inspection. It's always a good feeling.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    We measured in a few spots and its 4"
    Is that too thin of a slab?
    Rgds,
    Dominick (Inground Pool Newbie)
    650 sq/ft - 20k gallons
    Free-Form Gunite with Granite Ansylbrite Finish
    40 sq/ft 18' raised spa
    Jandy DE60 filter
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  19. #19
    Mod Squad Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    4" is standard. It just looks a little thinner in the picture.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Failed Bonding Grid Inspection Twice

    Yep...4" is the standard thickness for all concrete unless it serves some unusual purpose. Glad to hear it is not an issue.
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