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Thread: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

  1. #1
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    sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Hello,

    I vacuumed a lot of debri from the pool this evening. I vacuumed on filter. Then I cleaned the basket in the pump. Then Backwashed, then rinsed, then turned the filter back on. When I turned the filter back on it spit out some dirt or sand or something back into the water for a few seconds then stopped. I would say this is due to broken laterals, but last year we had this issue with WAY more sand, and removed all the sand, replaced it and put brand new laterals in. So what is another possible cause?? Any ideas?

    HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  2. #2
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Welcome to TFP!!

    This doesn't sound like a lateral nor sand issue to me

    Off the cuff, it sounds like a multiport issue, any chance we can get some more info on yours? (& I don't think there's a problem with the multi - you just need a primer on properly backwashing your filter) This is what we're here for - come learn from us
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  3. #3
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    well what you do mean multiport issue?

    I figure it has to be something I did tonight with vacuuming. I vacuumed on filter for a while and when the pressure because noticably reduced, I cleaned the basket in the pump and then backwashed for about 1-2 minutes. Then I rinsed for about 45seconds-1 minute. Then I turned the filter back on and saw sand or dirt or something coming out.

    Let me knwo what you need to know about my filter or my process..
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  4. #4
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    My filter has a small glass sight glass. I backwash until it shows clear water. Rinse for 1 min then return to filtering. Sounds like the filter was not completly washed or you may need to rinse a little longer.
    coloeb,
    20k gal. IG fiberglass/plaster rectangle 32'x16'
    Hayward Superpump 3/4 H.P. primary Hayward model 5060 Booster Pump
    Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    Pentair Model 320 automatic Chlorine/bromine in-line feeder

  5. #5
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Coloeb,

    Thats a good point, though i really feel like I backwashed long enough to see clear water. I watched it go from sorta clear, to dirty, to clear. Then I rinsed for probably 45 seconds. So i'm not sure.
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  6. #6
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: sand or dirt or debris back in pool after vacuuming

    First a couple of questions.
    1. What type and size is your pool?[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    2. How does your vacuum hook up?[/*:m:8ib15i0i]


    Just to make sure your process is correct here's how you should be doing it.
    1. Start Pump.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    2. Hook up vacuum.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    3. Vacuum pool.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    4. Stop pump.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    5. Clean pump basket strainer & remove vacuum.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    6. Start pump and run for a couple minutes to clear debris.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    7. Stop Pump.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    8. Place multiport valve to backwash.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    9. Start pump and backwash until sight glass shows clear.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    10. Stop pump.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    11. Move multport valve to rinse.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    12. Start pump and rinse till sight glass runs clear.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    13. Stop pump.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    14. Move multiport valve to filter.[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    15. Start Pump and run normally[/*:m:8ib15i0i]
    Is this basically the steps you take? (a & b's order can be swapped.)
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

  7. #7
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    That is exactly what I do. Then I saw it spit out a little sand or dirt or what not back into the pool for a few seconds. This morning when I started the filter (after being off all night) I didnt see anything shoot back into the pool. The water flow is very strong. How long does the backwash typically take? I watch it go from sorta clear to very dirty to clear. Then I rinse, which mostly looks clear. I backwash for probably 1-2 minutes and rinse for about 45 seconds.

    Pool is 20 by 40 with 2 skimmers and a main drain. I hook the vacuum up to the hole below the basket in the skimmer. Suction seemed fine yesterday. The issue was the debri coming back into the pool when I ran the pump on filter after vacuuming, backwashing, and rinsing. Thoughts?
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  8. #8
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    It's possible that some dirt got carried over in the multiport valve while switching positions and got washed back into the pool. Keep and eye on it and see if it happens again.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

  9. #9
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    this morning i turned on the filter to run it for the day, and didnt notice any debri coming out of it. It looked like it normally does, a couple bubbles, a few quick bursts, then a steady stream.

    Does this support your theory that maybe some of the dirt got caught in the multivalve as i switched it? For what its worth, I vacuumed out quite a bit of debri yesterday. I just don't want my vacuuming efforts to feel wasted.

    Thanks!
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  10. #10
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Yeah it does. It was a one time event we hope. I wouldn't worry about it unless it happens regularly.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

  11. #11
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Could/Would this problem be avoided by just always vacuuming to waste when I have a pretty big amount of stuff to vacuum in the pool?

    It did happen a few times last night, as I needed to backwash about 2-3 times after vacuuming quite a bit of debri.
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  12. #12
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Maybe, maybe not. It's hard to say because we're not exactly sure what's causing it in the first place. Next time you backwash try rinsing longer. Maybe a full minute.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

  13. #13
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    last year we had some laterals broken so it shot more sand in the pool. i fixed it with new laterals and new sand.

    so tonight i vacuumed some of the remaining sand from last year on the pool floor. the problem is after vacuuming to waste and rinsing for 1-2 minutes after (looked clear going out the back) i saw sand come back in for a few seconds when i put the pump back on filter.

    thoughts?? it cant be my laterals, those are new!
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  14. #14
    Member chrisjb8685's Avatar
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    You mentioned in a earlier post that you hook up your vacuum to the hole at the bottom of the skimmer below the basket.

    I'm not sure about the sand back in but I was told not to hook up directly to the hole below the skimmer basket as you could inadvertently vacuum something large that could possibly clog the pipe. I was told to vacuum through the basket with a circular vacuum plate.
    5 year old 40k L shaped vinyl Salt-Water with 40k T-15 cell, Pentair TR -100 450# filter, zeobrite media, 4 returns, 3 skimmers, 1 1/2 - 1/3 HP pump Whisper Flo

  15. #15
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Just to be sure, you do remove the vacuum before starting the backwash and run the filter for a couple minutes, still on 'filter'? If you don't, this could well be the cause for what you're seeing

    I think that you still have vacuumed debris in the line and when you switch to 'backwash' that debris is ending up on the wrong side of the filter media. (anyone else want to take it from here? )

    Bama, you might want to make 'f' run pump for a couple of minutes to clear debris from the line, then switch to backwash
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  16. #16
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    I have sand that spilled in the pool last year from broken laterals (replaced since and new sand) so I vacuum on waste. then remove the hose and put the basket back in. then I shut the pool pump off. then I switch it to rinse for about 1-2 minutes. I see clear water going out the back. I shut off the pump and put it on filter. For the first few seconds of the pump running, see some sand come out.

    On a day where I don't vacuum, i leave the pump off at night and turn the filter on in the morning. In doing so, i haven't seen sand come out of the jets. The only time i saw sand was after i vacuumed to filter or vacuumed to waste. I always backwash and rinse if i vacuum on filter. But more recently I vacuum on waste and rinse after. Yet I stll see some sand shoot out after.
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  17. #17
    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Try Ted's suggestion of running the filter for a couple of minutes after you vacuum and before you back wash and rinse and see if that helps.
    TFP Moderator
    Helpful links: TF Test Kits,TFP Pool School, PoolMath
    Vogue 21" round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Upper Texas Coast

  18. #18
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    So vacuum to waste. After finishing, take the vacuum hose out. Then shut off the pump. Put it on Filter for a few minutes. Then shut it off and run backwash and rinse?

    correct?

    Is there a time when you shouldnt rinse after vacuuming to waste? I am hoping its my process and not an actual part that is messed up.
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

  19. #19
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattyssox
    On a day where I don't vacuum, i leave the pump off at night and turn the filter on in the morning. In doing so, i haven't seen sand come out of the jets. The only time i saw sand was after i vacuumed to filter or vacuumed to waste.
    By that description, it sounds like something's going on in the multiport. I'm leaning toward the spider gasket letting some dirty water migrate from the dirty side to the clean side while vacuuming. But I'm not sure that could happen.

    Tell us what brand and model your equipment is. As much of it as you know but especially the multiport valve, filter and pump. Also if you could take some pics of your equipment and post them maybe that would help.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

  20. #20
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    Re: sand or dirt or debri back in pool afrter vacuuming

    I can take pictures when I get home, but the pump is a hayward 1.5hp, and is brand new. The multiport valve is starbrite? and is probably on the older side. The sand and laterals are new. the pool is 20 by 40. As I said, I don't see sand shooting in when I fire up the pump in the morning while its been off overnight. And I dont see sand or debri shoot out while I vacuum on filter. Just after.
    Matt

    Hayward Pump 3/4 HP - brand new
    sta rite sand filter - not sure of size, i will get back to this
    20 by 40 inground pool, vinyl liner, 8ft deep end
    2 skimmers and a main drain.
    1 jet in the deep end, 1 jet in the shallow end.
    Live in New England = about 3 months of pool usage.

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