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Thread: help with #'s

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    dorpo75's Avatar
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    help with #'s

    Here is the story: Have been trying like heck to get my numbers correct. Two days ago, I put CYA in the skimmer. This morning I put in 2 gal of 10% liquid chlorine. Sorry, I can't remember how much CYA I put in . Here are my numbers now;
    FC 1.5
    CC6.5
    TC 8.0
    PH 7.2 (was 8.2 yesterday)
    TA 120 - was 170 yesterday, 150 day before and 120 day prior to that
    CH didn't test
    CYA 10 - was 20 4 days ago, then 30, then 10 and today the same.
    H20 temp- 76 with filter and heater running.
    Rain today

    I am pleased to see the PH finally in the good place (just), but not happy about the CYA or the TA. Can anyone help me? I am a complete novice at using the BBB method and am trying to get it right. I use the TF-100 test kit and am already out of the 1st bottle of R-0013.
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: help with #'s

    You use up the CYA reagant very fast. You shouldn't check CYA for a week after you put granular Cyanuric acid in. It doesn't dissolve very fast and won't show up on the test for about a week.

    TA has a known issue with static. wiping the tip of the bottle with a damp cloth every few drops fixes that issue.

    With a CC of 6.5 you need to shock. Use your FC test and pool calc to fugure out how much Chlorine you need to add. You're probably going to have to shock for several days with a CC that high in order to get rid of it. Also, if you have a solar cover, leave it off till the CC's are below .5ppm.

    You should read Pool School, how to shock your pool. We will be glad to help you help yourself. Post back any thing you don't understand.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: help with #'s

    Thanks for the advice. I will be going to school now to learn more about pool chemistry
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    Re: help with #'s

    The devil is sometimes in the details.

    1) what does the water look like ? ( clear, green , grey, cloudy etc. Often more than 1 applies)

    2) Your chemistry bouncing around could be a result of trying to do much to fast, Adding alot of make up water, or in the case of your ph adding chemicals. Understanding the effects of the chemicals you use is perhaps the single most important part of pool maintanence.
    3) Turning off your pool heater will help in your shock process . Algea do not like cold water.

    4) Listen to Bama all his advice is dead on.
    coloeb,
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    dorpo75's Avatar
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    Re: help with #'s

    I was remiss in adding the water status; it is clear. We have had a TON
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    dorpo75's Avatar
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    Re: help with #'s

    of rain. (sorry about that cutting out. I hit a wrong button in my haste). I would also agree with you that I may be trying to do too much in too short of a time frame. I never was one with a lot of patience. If owning a pool teaches me nothing else, it will teach me tolerance. I don't have a choice! I have retested the water and have the #'s and will be adding more bleach once I am done with this post.
    Thank you all for your help.
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    Re: help with #'s

    WOW 6.5 CC's and the water is clear?

    Are you sure you're doing the DPD test correctly? 10ml of water, 1 heaping scoop of powder/granules, swirl to mix. Solution will be pink. Add one drop of R-0871 at a time, swirling between drops until sample turns clear. Divide those drops in half is your FC. Add 5 drops of R-0003 and swirl. If sample turns pink again, you have CC's. Repeat adding R-0871 and divide those drops in half.

    As mentioned it can take 5+ days for the CYA to totally dissolve and fully register. You will probably be ok with the CYA until you reorder R-0013 (get the 8 oz, better value). your shock levels won't have to be so high to get rid of CC's with a lower CYA anyway.

    If 2 gallons of 10% only gives you 1.5 FC and still 6.5 CC, I'd go with 3 gallons next time, or add another gallon sooner than waiting. You may have to add every few hours to keep shock level high enough. But the pool calc. should give you the exact measurements to use to hit the recommended shock level. Since you don't know exactly CYA level yet I'd probably go with a shock level of 15ppm.

    And are you sure you have 15+k gallons in your 24' round AGP? Unless you have a deep rounded bottom, typical water level on a 52" pool is about 4 - 4.5 ft. Mine is 4ft. That gives me about 13.5 gallons. It makes a difference when you're using the pool calculator and want to be precise in your measurements.
    24' x 52" AGP = 13.5k gallons
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    Re: help with #'s

    Dora, what I did when I was learning was to print out all the Pool School documents. Then I put them in a folder and it's now my pool bible. I know it might seem like a lot to take in at first, but I found having it printed out for easy reference really helped.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: help with #'s

    Rastoma I have gone to the pool calc and it told me to use considerably less than what you are advising. I guess now is the best time to ask. Is the pool calculator the only method to use when trying to gauge how much product to put in the water? I am not sure I am too confident about how to use the calculator correctly. I put in the number I have on the left, and then the target in the right and basically hit calculate, right?

    The pool school and I will become fast friends I can tell. Already I have been doing what Mickey4paws has suggested. Printing off material and keeping it in a binder near my supplies. That way, there is info right at my fingertips.

    One more question: when adding borax or baking soda are they diluted and added to the skimmer, diluted and then poured around the edge of the water or broadcast dry over the surface of the pool?

    There are so many things I am realizing I don't know. Little things, but they are all important to do correctly.

    Thanks for all of the advice and ideas.
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    Re: help with #'s

    Is the Pool Calculator the only method? No, but in nearly all cases it is the best choice.

    Your description of how you use the Pool Calculator sounds exactly right. The PH calculation depends on TA and Borate numbers being entered correctly in the Now column, and everything depends on the pool volume being entered correctly.

    I also wonder about your estimate of pool volume. Your pool needs to be deeper than I'm used to for the volume to come out that high.

    There are many ways to add baking soda and borax. My two favorites are: 1) pour the powder slowly directly into the skimmer with the skimmer basket in place and the skimmer sock, if any, removed. 2) pre-dissolve and then pour that slowly in front of a return jet. Borax and baking soda are two of the most forgiving chemicals, so you can add them in any of several ways.
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    Re: help with #'s

    I went back to the calculator and entered my pool measurements; 24' round by 4.5ft deep gave me a total of 15,200. It knocked almost 100 gal off of my "store" calculation of how much water there is in the pool. It could probably make a difference in chemicals, eh?

    I really want to get the water right. Will keep trying and checking until the numbers are looking better.
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    Re: help with #'s

    100 gal. wont make a dent in any chems you add, not at that volume of water anyway. Keep asking questions thats the way to confirm what you have learned.
    coloeb,
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    Re: help with #'s

    Quote Originally Posted by Dora
    Rastoma I have gone to the pool calc and it told me to use considerably less than what you are advising.
    Definitely follow what the calc says. I was just basing my guesses on such a high CC and that it appeared to not make a dent in your FC after adding 2 gallons of 10%. But you can't go wrong following the calc. It sounds like you're doing it right. I can put 2 gallons of 6% in my 24' AGP and that alone will bring me to shock level... but I've never had CC's that high before. That's why everyone's situation is different even if they have the same size pool

    Quote Originally Posted by Dora
    One more question: when adding borax or baking soda are they diluted and added to the skimmer, diluted and then poured around the edge of the water or broadcast dry over the surface of the pool?

    I'm surprised that .5 ft deep was that big a difference between my 4ft Did you guess or use a tape measure to measure the water level? If it's 4.5 then you're correct and 100 gal won't matter one bit.

    I agree with JasonLion (of course.... he's one of the guru's of the gurus I put borax and baking soda either in the skimmer or if I have the Polaris roving around dragging the net on the bottom of the floor I'll slowly pour it near the return. But skimmer is just about the easiest way. If clumps of it goes through to the filter it will quickly dissolve in the filter.
    24' x 52" AGP = 13.5k gallons
    Dynamo 2.0 HP pump,Sand Dollar sand filter
    Polaris 65 vacuum (good when there are a ton of leaves on bottom), Pool Rover Jr. (LOVE it, but power box dead right now), AquaCritter (an excellent suction side cleaner)

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    Re: help with #'s

    My question was, is the water really 4.5 feet deep? A standard above ground pool has a 4' wall height and a 3.5' water depth. An extended, extra tall, pool typically has a 4.5 foot wall height and a 4' water depth. I have never actually seen a pool with a 5' wall and 4.5 foot water depth, though I am sure one could be custom made.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: help with #'s

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    My question was, is the water really 4.5 feet deep? A standard above ground pool as a 4' wall height and a 3.5' water depth. An extended, extra tall, pool typically has a 4.5 foot wall height and a 4' water depth. I have never actually seen a pool with a 5' wall and 4.5 foot water depth, though I am sure one could be custom made.


    Hmm... now I gotta break out the tape measure again. Maybe I figured my own wrong then.
    24' x 52" AGP = 13.5k gallons
    Dynamo 2.0 HP pump,Sand Dollar sand filter
    Polaris 65 vacuum (good when there are a ton of leaves on bottom), Pool Rover Jr. (LOVE it, but power box dead right now), AquaCritter (an excellent suction side cleaner)

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    Re: help with #'s

    Heck. Now you have ME wondering for sure. Now I'M going to have to break out the tape measure.

    Really enjoy the way this site makes me think . Never too old to keep the brain cells active. Thanks
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: help with #'s

    We have a 24' X 52" pool it holds 13,000 gallons of water (Actually 12,900 but 13k is close enough). I've seen a lot of pool stores estimates on gallonage and can't fathom how they come up with those numbers!
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    dorpo75's Avatar
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    Re: help with #'s

    I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.

    I added 2 1/2 gal. liquid chlorine 10% at 6:30pm yesterday (sat.)
    Last night @ 9:30 the TC was 15. I shut off the pump at about 10:30 after having it run ~12-14hrs

    Just got through testing the water this morning for "stuff" and here is what I have;
    FC .5
    CC .5
    TC 1.0
    PH 6.8
    TA 110

    Here is what the pool calc. says I should do:
    FC add 1 quart 3 cups 3 oz 10% bleach ( I think that I need more)
    PH add 11 lbs or 2.3 (76 oz) boxes borax

    TA Add 0 by weight or 0 by volume of baking soda.
    To lower TA you reduce pH to 7.0-7.2 with acid and then aerate to increase pH.

    Here is my confusion: effects of adding chemicals
    Adding 172oz of borax will raise PH by 1.39, raise Borate by 11, and raise TA by 25.
    Should I be trying to LOWER my TA and raise my PH?

    I know I have to keep my chlorine high for now as it is not done shocking the contents of the pool. I think this d/t the high amount of TC last night and now there is barely anything there.
    Sorry if this message has too much info, but I am trying to give you as clear a picture of what I am doing as possible so that the answers can be understood on my end.

    Thanks.
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    dorpo75's Avatar
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    Re: help with #'s

    that and the fact that my pool store has my gal of water way overstated. It is really at about 13,500 gal. Thanks to all who were commenting on that post last night as well. I went out and measured the depth this morning and readjusted my data.
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
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    Re: help with #'s

    On the Pool Calculator, it doesn't "know" what your target levels should be. You need to figure out an appropriate target level and it will then tell you how much chemical to use to get there.

    You want to raise your PH to between 7.0 and 7.2, very soon, while the FC level is low, using borax. One thing to watch out for, the starting PH might be lower than 6.8, because the test will read levels lower than 6.8 as if they were 6.8. This will raise the TA, but there is no avoiding that. You don't want to raise PH more than you have to, because it also raises the TA, but you do need to get PH up to at least 7.0 soon.

    You should be raising FC up to about 15 to continue shocking the pool. Take care of the PH first, then go back to shocking.
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