Pool Build - California Dreaming - 3 Years Closer

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

The engineering on the column was pretty intense - 1 ft. deep poured foundation per column with 8x #5 rebar vertical per column on 6" on 6"; 5x #5 rebar with #4 rebar ties on 6" on 6", and then tied to pool ring of bar of 6x #4 rebar. Thereafter the whole ring of the pool was 4x #4 rebar. I was thankful I got such good pricing for all the steel rod and labor. The outside columns have separate footings and are detached from the pool structure; special joists will allow movement. Each column has been engineered for 8000 lb dead and live load, or about 2.5x the expected real load. Safe to say that everything should hold up.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

It will be a week tomorrow since the shotcrete was shot. I was hoping someone could tell me how much and how often I should been spraying down the pool after the first week. So far I have seen about 15 hairline cracks of about 3 to 6 inches long at the top edge of the bond beam, about 6 or so hairline cracks of 6 to 12 inches in length on the floor, and one or two similar on two of the main steps at the entry of the pool. Basically I was wondering if this is normal or should I be concerned. Also there are many dime to quarter size holes of 1/2 inch round and anywhere from 1/4 to 1 inch deep. In fact the whole pool is basically pock-marked. I assume this is an expected finish for shotcrete and will be addressed/filled by the plasterer. Any info would be appreciated. Best regards.

 

[Guest]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Hairline cracks are the worst kind, as they tend to lay "dormant" for many years and then release pent up energy all at once. There have been documented cases of people losing limbs once that occurs. Small tsunamis have also been reported after the spent energy is released, at which time the pool water, due to the efflorescence that has been trapped in the hairline cracked gunite, becomes caustic and, if you are in the pool, you will be reduced to TDS. Any water that splashes out of the pool will etch the decking, remove the paint from the house and flatten the tires on the car!

Alright, I'm done messing with you You can quit watering the gunite after the first week, and the hairline cracks and pock marks are all very normal. Good questions, and you have a lot invested, so I understand. Now, go have a beer and quit worrying

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Too funny. Thanks. I can see where newbies can be entertaining.

On point, is the plasterer expected to fill in any large holes prior to spreading out my hydrazzo with patch cement or does the plaster fill in all voids as described above. I thought I read somewhere that one does not want too thick of plaster in certain areas as it would be prone to crack. Is this true ?

 

[TFP_wanna_be]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Glad to see you are moving right along... Tell me about your laminar effects - just the lion heads or do you have other fun stuff in mind?

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

As it stands now we have two lighted deck laminars at the deep end which will nicely frame front toward house. We have three lighted waterfalls 2 x 3' and 1 x 4' long with fiber light bars. There are two lighted bubblers in sunshelf and then a total of four laminar accent spouts in the columns. I have gone ahead if budget allows later and installed the conduit in the shell at the entry steps to add some light fixtures (starfloor) to floor of entry steps and perimeter lighting under coping of 14 ft spa and under coping of swim up bar. There will be gas fire pots on each entrance of the steps to the raised spa area. Underwater lighting of the pool and spa is by way of 4 intellibrite lights

 

[Guest]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Too funny. Thanks. I can see where newbies can be entertaining.

On point, is the plasterer expected to fill in any large holes prior to spreading out my hydrazzo with patch cement or does the plaster fill in all voids as described above. I thought I read somewhere that one does not want too thick of plaster in certain areas as it would be prone to crack. Is this true ?

You're project is much larger, and way more aggressive, than most pool builds, so I would not consider you a "newbie" by any stretch! Sometimes my sense of humor is only funny to me, and I did not want to take anything away from your build (which I am very impressed with)!

The small voids and such that you are seeing are easily handled by just the finish (Hydrazzo in your case), and you do not want any "filler" put in prior. The problem we see in plaster finishes is not in the filling of holes, but in the case where someone uses the plaster to "build up" an area with the material. Plasterers use "thick" plaster to fill in around light niches and wall penetrations all the time, and it is durable and completely acceptable.

Your pool is going to be one in a hundred (maybe a thousand!). Keep up the great work

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

I for one like your humor. I lmao at your above post about the hairline cracks. Thanks for the accolade; I hope that I have not taken on too much. When I started in May I knew very little. I believe knowledge is power and the best information comes from those who know such as you and others on this forum.

Thanks again!!

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Here is another shot of the pool.

Today I pressure washed the whole pool and swept up about a wheel barrow full of pebbles and cement residue. This should make it a bit easier for the plaster crew and possible allow me to get a better price on the application. There are two or three cosmetic (non-structural) areas that need some patching before plaster, but all in all the shotcrete came out very well. I would recommend this sub if anyone needs a referral in So. California.

The next step is to save up for the next phase including coping, stone ledger on raised bond beam, tile and grading. As I stated before my goal is to complete everything by March, including the side courtyard and new french door entrance to the south side of the house, closest to the pool. Hopefully, the economy picks up this coming year and inflation does not raise its ugly head.

Thanks again for your interest.

 

[Guest]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Go ahead and get the forms stripped (I should have told you earlier, as it would have been much easier ). Pretty good chance they are stuck good and tight now.

You don't need to waste your time cleaning up the pool. It will become the biggest trash can in the yard as guys throw all kinds of stuff in there (not right, but they all seem to think it is okay ). The tile and coping guys will also make a mess with thinset and grout, mixing and working. They should (as they all should!) clean up after themselves, especially since their material will stick to the gunite and will need to be scraped off later if left to dry.

Lastly, the plaster company will clean and wash the shell prior to plaster. They will charge you extra if it is extremely dirty, but part of their pricing includes cleaning, and they have to have a clean surface so that they can warrant their work, so they are not going to trust it to be done well enough for them!

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Well, I took the concrete molds qnd backer board off this weekend and they were sure hard to remove. I waited too long and had I done it sooner it would have not been such a chore. The best part was pick axing around the bond beam to remove some concrete waste that was left there. Anyway I am now focused on finding some discounted ledger stone and saving up to complete the deck surround. If anyone has experience my permit says it expires 6 months after nonactivity; does this mean that I need to schedule another inspection in order to not lose my permit or just inform the building department of the completion of concrete pour?

 

[Lershac]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

If they are reasonable... just go talk to the guy that stays in the office at the inspections division. Tell him what you have going on, and he will note it on the permit and inform you what you need to do to keep the permit open and active. I am approaching a year on a building permit down here (pushing to get things finished, gonna stucco about 1500 sq feet next week, then top out a bathroom and some paint and I can get inspected.)

If they are jerks, they may freak out about the incredibly dangerous empty hole in the ground you are maintaining and demand the whole thing be bulldozed.

I have run into both types. Seek out the nice guys and keep them friendly.

 

[Guest]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Just tell them that you need an extension; no worries. The last pool that I built for a firefighter buddy of mine had 4 extensions (that was in San Marcos), since they had a hard time making some decisions on materials (the pool turned out beautifully in the end!). I've never had a problem getting an extension, although it does not happen very often.

Again, I apologize for not telling you to strip your forms earlier I know what you had to go through!

 

[ccp]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Hi there,

I am in the design phase on my pool right now. I live in Corona, CA. Love your pool. So do you have any advice for me in the design phase? I am also going to owner build it. Also, any advice on subs you have used and found to be good at working with owner builders?

Thanks.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Thanks Simi. As to advice, if you read my blog I am a newbie but can definitely share what I have learned but I got to give most of the credit to the knowledgeable folks of this forum. Regards.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

I was wondering if the plaster contractor would add a sealer like Aquron or the like to the concrete shell to allow for seepage protection and a better binding of the plaster. I read somewhere that it is not necessary but add some protection to slow down deterioration of the shell and steel structure.

Also as I am now in the process of purchasing the stone and tile for the pool, I was hoping for some recommendations. For the waterline, I am looking at some glass mosaic iridescent tile, line a sage or darker green. I like the way light shimmers within this tile. I have found some liquidation inventory of 1x1 inch tiles (3/8" thick) on mesh (non tumbled, smooth) for easier install and durability. I aim to use the glass tile rather sparingly due to cost - waterline (6"), bar stools, surface of benches, seating areas, and a 2" strip at the edge of all steps for safety.

For the raised bond beam, I am looking at natural stone, particularly quartz. I can get this in pre-cut (patterned) ledge stone for as little as $2 per sq ft straight from importer. See pictures of colors below. The tile would be a little under $6/ft. which would be a steal I believe as it is about $15/ft at Lowes. The cheapest I have seen the ledgestone is $6/FT for the panels.

Below are images of the two. Let me know your thoughts and thanks again.

 

[Guest]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

The ledger stone will work fine on the RBB. Be careful on the glass tile though. All glass tile does not work in water! Moisture gets behind the glass and "molds" or separates the background color form the glass. You also need to use a white thinset (full flex material) and not the grey; grey will show through and "muddy" the color.

Make sure that any glass tile is "pool water compatible", and check to see if it is paper faced or mesh backed. Glass tile ususally costs considerably more to set that ceramic, as each piece needs to be touched and adjusted to stay level. Beautiful, but more labor and "issues" if a guy does not get the right stuff!

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Thanks Simi; always so generous with your experience,
I sent a note to the tile company to make sure the tile is compatible. This was from the catalog


"Glass has been a part of human history for many thousands of years. Once a luxury reserved only for the wealthy, we are pleased to offer this gorgeous material on mesh mounted mosaics to finish your living spaces. Add a new dimension to your surroundings by complementing any room or exterior setting at your home or office with the shimmering and luminescent qualities of glass. These remarkable pieces are a wonderful addition to any setting and add a pleasant and warming sense of style. We offer a large selection of mosaic designs for any project or budget.

The mesh-backing provides for a simple and easy mounting and installation, requiring much less time to install than other glass mosaics such as paper-faced mosaics. The mesh then blends seamlessly into your mounting surface after it binds to your white adhesive/mortar. These glass mosaics are compatible with most every application imaginable and suitable for interior and exterior use on floors, walls, kitchen backsplashes, counter and table-tops, bathrooms, pools, spas, murals, fountains and more. Detailed installation instructions are available upon request, including the specific adhesive/mortar and grout for use with this material and a step-by-step install guide for the do-it-yourselfer. This has proven to be a handy resource for many of our customers, even customers who have used professional contractors as many installers do not usually deal with glass tile on a regular basis."

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Today I received a confirmation from the trading company regarding the glass tile that it is fact mesh backed and suitable for pool applications. Thanks again for the heads up.

 

[spillmar]

Re: Pool Build - California Dreaming

Thanks RayW. One thing I set out to do was to save enough to get at least through shotcrete knowing that once I got through that phase I could pace myself and complete the finishing over time. My issue was not halting at steel and letting it rust during the current rainy season in SoCal. As is obvious in the thread, I am a bit obsessed when it comes to not paying retail and I have saved a lot of money sourcing my equipment and materials from liquidations, pool supplier overstock, private sellers, etc. For example last month, I priced at HomeDepot the copper wire for the 300 ft run from the main house to the pool house at $1850. I then spent a month on eBay, craigslist and other classifieds looking for bargains. With patience I ended up finding the same wire for $850 plus $60 delivery, essentially saving almost a grand. This may not seem much but when all is said and done over the course of the build in can amount to savings of tens of thousands. The same principle can be applied to contractors and in this environment almost everyone is willing to bid for your business. As some have attested, I believe I saved almost 50% on the shotcrete. In some cases you may find out that you get what you pay for, but my experience has been very positive so far. There alot of really good folks with great skills available to the owner builder right now.

As to the cost of the pool, many will not believe me. I have kept very good accounting for tax purposes and let's just say that I am at half of what the average pool builder quoted me, especially with the custom design, water features and lighting.

Basically, I say do your research, save for phases before starting, seek out the best value subs, and be willing to commit a good amount of time and energy. Also note that it does take a certain personality to take a project of this size on; for me I love the challenge, the acquired knowledge and the gratification of knowing I rose to the challenge and created something that reflects my style and as gaudy as it sounds, is a monument of a sort. At least that's what I am hoping. Good luck and best wishes.